Giving Up on Prop - What Next?

Quote from seasonedpro:

So there has to be a better way. I have found getting a trading job very unlike getting any other.
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I guess I'm lucky then, I later brought in some prop boys' resumes to the fund, 3 of them passed the interview process, and they are still filling orders for the fund. They got in not because of me, my fund would interview any prop trader. There were times I didn't understand why did some good prop traders I brought in got rejected. I guess it depends on the interview process...

Give this a try:
http://www.traderdaily.com/career/index.html

Good luck.
 
I got some great advice from DynamicReplic8er - If you have access to a Bloomberg terminal, there are literally hundreds of jobs posting as well as a resume posting board. Everyday new jobs are posted.

If you've been trading outside a prop account, at home or swing trading, whatever- think of incorporating a new business, transfer any funds into that business and set up your own hedge fund. Get some business cards made, maybe even a nice little website, then you can put it on your resume.

Also look at professional organizations, If anyone knows any specific professional organizations for TRADERS, please post the names here.

hope this helps!
 
You should consider joining a prop futures shop, I think you should do well in it. The day you get rich, hire me :-). I know that's what I would do once I'm done learning from the fund. Or maybe I would just trade my own account.
 
I know its not buy side but have you looked at being an Institutional Sales Trader?

Dont know much about the position but always see job posting for that type of position.

Does anyone have any insight on a Sales Trader postion? What the job intails and earnings potential?
 
Seasonedpro,

I can hook you up with a job in Chicago if you want. I don't know where you live now but if you are willing to move here, I have some connections. I know a great outfit here. It's not my firm, but a good group of guys I know here. You will be trading options. And the less knowledge you have of them, the better. Let me know if you are interested.
 
Quick trader,

I have looked into the inst. sales trader gig. You can definitely make money but it is more sales than trading. There are jobs a plenty out there but I believe a lot of the firms that are lookig for help are doing so because the research they offer isn't so good and they've lost people because of. Furthermore, they always advertize because any firm will take on someone new if they have a book of clients they can bring over immediately. This I do not have.
 
Quote from seasonedpro:

Quick trader,

I have looked into the inst. sales trader gig. You can definitely make money but it is more sales than trading. There are jobs a plenty out there but I believe a lot of the firms that are lookig for help are doing so because the research they offer isn't so good and they've lost people because of. Furthermore, they always advertize because any firm will take on someone new if they have a book of clients they can bring over immediately. This I do not have.
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Wasn't Michael Lewis from Liar's Poker basically a Sales/Trader for Bonds? In fact aren't more and more of the IB's moving away from seperate sales and trading positions and creating sales/traders. Tech and program trading are allowing easier block trading to occur and less use for an outright trader only position. Hopefully someone on the inside could comment?
 
No you are definitely right, the IBs trading departments have taken big hits recently because everyone finally figured out the conflict of interest the trading departments have not to mention the outright fraud that did occur. So much of buy-side trading has moved in house. That is why I want to move to the buy-side to trade, not only do I believe I can offer them better execution, but I firmly believe they are getting ripped off.

So yes, the IBs now have more and more hybrid traders who are also sales guys. It is the only way many of them can justify their positions anymore.
 
Quote from seasonedpro:

The big difference is the bid ask spread, which was as wide (.125-.25) as the typical move for the stocks I trade, now it's a penny. The moves today are slower and less sustained. And although it is still possible, it's much more difficult to ferret out real buyers and sellers because of ECNs. Program trading has really screwed things up as far as my style is concerned. Most importantly though it is the volatility.

I know there are guys making money out there but the hold time is much longer and very different from the style I cut my teeth on.
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You're right in all of this. I had a similar experience at a firm in NYC and realized that scalping does not work.

From reading your post, I agree that decimalization has led to lower volatility and the bid/ask spread has hurt people, too. BUT - I think you are focusing too much on order flow. I am saying this as one who reads the tape well. I've read a ton of trading books - all bullshit - except for The Logical Trader.

Try calculating the Pivot Range and the Opening Range and then read the tape when the stock approaches those levels - focusing on seeing the forest (the move itself) from the trees (the book, the box, the tape) will help you catch sick moves. Just check out all of the stocksin the XOI.

You CAN make money - but you need to be willing to trade directionally and recognize that scalping is a losing game and that an arca "dishing" isn't necessarily a reason to get out leaving yourself no way to get back in.
 
Quote from seasonedpro:

No you are definitely right, the IBs trading departments have taken big hits recently because everyone finally figured out the conflict of interest the trading departments have not to mention the outright fraud that did occur. So much of buy-side trading has moved in house. That is why I want to move to the buy-side to trade, not only do I believe I can offer them better execution, but I firmly believe they are getting ripped off.

So yes, the IBs now have more and more hybrid traders who are also sales guys. It is the only way many of them can justify their positions anymore.
More...

I hear what you mean, but that's probably better for the guys that are left at the IB's. They get the volume credits and a cut of the P&L, right?

Buy-side is probably a lot tougher to find a job, I don't really see that many postings for buy-side, some but not too many. You might want to check out regional areas outside the major financial areas, LA, TX, FL.

I've been looking around near DC which has a lot of financial advisory business but not much else. I'm slowly finding asset management companies but they don't exactly advertise too much. Try the yellow pages/super pages- you might find some contacts that way.

Also I've been trying to find a professional organization to join. I found the Securities Trading Association which you might think about joining.

www.securitytraders.org
 
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