Give us Ghaddafi to run Europe, Please.

[g222]

Quote from dontmissthebus:

I don't really understand your point about the Civil War... Americans are indeed the combatant of the American Civil War. I'm not sure what your point is here - that america fought its own people? Indeed it did - and I'm certain not naive enough to think the reason for the civil war entirely based on freeing the slaves. There are all sorts of other less glamorous reasons like north/south economic interests.

But how does that compare to the great Purges of EVERY communist regime? And no, Maccarthism (certainly not a high point of western liberal democracy) is not on the same moral plane as the whole sale deportation of families to siberian gulags.

You brought up the civil war, not me:both democracy and America (both Americas, I suppose) are responsible for the civil war. The primary catalysts for that terrible action came from Europe.

And you're absolutely right ... there is little to compare to those great purges you mention. But things are not always as they seem. Stalin, for example, is given more credit than he deserves for the deaths of tens of millions ... the Cheka went on a rampage, with no objection from Stalin ... and ... there is question as to whether those running Cheka were truly communist.

 

[DontMissTheBus]

Actually, some other guy did "So was American democraZY resposible for the death of 30% of ALL white southern white males in the 1860's?"

I thought it was you... hence the confusion.

"whether those running Cheka were truly communist" is a bit of a No True Scotsman don't you think? There's no true communist. There is no true liberal democrat.

There are some systems that are open to abuse than others. Communism is one of them.

Quote from g222:

Quote from dontmissthebus:



You brought up the civil war, not me:both democracy and America (both Americas, I suppose) are responsible for the civil war. The primary catalysts for that terrible action came from Europe.

And you're absolutely right ... there is little to compare to those great purges you mention. But things are not always as they seem. Stalin, for example, is given more credit than he deserves for the deaths of tens of millions ... the Cheka went on a rampage, with no objection from Stalin ... and ... there is question as to whether those running Cheka were truly communist.

 

[g222]

qupte from dontmissthebus:

"whether those running Cheka were truly communist" is a bit of a No True Scotsman don't you think? There's no true communist. There is no true liberal democrat.

... nor true conservative republican. But your point is well taken.
I do believe, though, that the Cheka - who probably killed more of their own countrymen than anyone, ever - was more interested in revenge than the spreading of communist doctrine. Indeed, horrible things have happened within the borders of communist regimes. but not all - especially the worst numerically - were perpetrated by communists.

 

[drillmega]

Quote from g222:

quote from drillmega:




Wowwouch!!! I share your disdain for Communism ... but where did they scratch 100+ mill ??? That's a lot of bods!!

Black Book of Communism:

65 million in the People's Republic of China
20 million in the Soviet Union[3]
2 million in Cambodia
2 million in North Korea
1.7 million in Africa
1.5 million in Afghanistan
1 million in the Communist states of Eastern Europe
1 million in Vietnam[4]
150,000 in Latin America
10,000 deaths "resulting from actions of the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power."

The book has had a lot of criticism, though. Mostly from wealthy Jews, which isn't wholly unexpected I guess.

 

[perplexed]

Quote from drillmega:
20 million in the Soviet Union[3]
The book has had a lot of criticism, though. Mostly from wealthy Jews, which isn't wholly unexpected I guess. [/B]

That's a f..ng lie about tens of millions in gulag. Many people in russia began to realise it.
It's simple question: i merely asked sometimes co-workers or friends : do you have relatives who were in gulag or killed by Cheka? You know what? 99% say NO.
It's a f..ng liberal lie from eltsyn's time.
And the most interesting thing... Guess who were the big bosses of Cheka?
Jews

 

[g222]

ote by perplexed:

And the most interesting thing... Guess who were the big bosses of Cheka?
Jews

... and 80% of the rank and file as well:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

 

[drillmega]

Quote from g222:

ote by perplexed:



... and 80% of the rank and file as well:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n1p-4_Weber.html

Exactly, and some more historical fact to pepper on that link above: http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/articles/MacDonald-Solzhenitsyn-Chap16.html

Of course, were just discussing historical facts here, you know. (I wonder how long it takes for America's loudest screaming special interest group to make a big scene about the last four posts of this thread.)

 

[g222]

quote by drillmega:

Exactly, and some more historical fact to pepper on that link above: http://www.theoccidentalobserver.ne...syn-Chap16.html

Of course, were just discussing historical facts here, you know. (I wonder how long it takes for America's loudest screaming special interest group to make a big scene about the last four posts of this thread.)

I'm reporting you to the SPCJ!!!

As MadDonald points out: "The critical Jewish role in Communism has been sanitized, while Jewish victimization by the Nazis has achieved the status of a moral touchstone..." Many hold the belief that Hitler's atrocities against the Jews were a direct result of their participation in the Bolshevik Revolution ... he did not want to see them do to the German people what they did to the Russians, Ukranians, Hungaians, etc.