Gifted trader: Andy Priston

I have no reason to doubt what you say ... and you seem definitive about it. I just want to be sure that what you are commenting on relates to the ACTUAL discussion I was in.

It was contended that there were futures firms @ 50/50 split allowing the trader who has a one lot track record to step up to 40 lots (I'll take 10 lots as a good example) without putting up any capital.

I simply do not believe that.

Quote from traderchi128:

Yes. Directional/outright trading firms that give guys discretion. They are out there. Contrary to belief on ET...there are still firms that have guys doing the old fashioned outright trading. While there are far fewer out there compared to the 90's....the good ones still exist. Except unlike in the late 90's when all you needed was a pulse rate to get hired, now you need an excellent track record and be willing to work your ass off.
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Quote from Swan Noir:

I have no reason to doubt what you say ... and you seem definitive about it. I just want to be sure that what you are commenting on relates to the ACTUAL discussion I was in.

It was contended that there were futures firms @ 50/50 split allowing the trader who has a one lot track record to step up to 40 lots (I'll take 10 lots as a good example) without putting up any capital.

I simply do not believe that.
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Again..there are futures firms that will back guys 100% IF they have the statements to validate their strategy. As far as what size they have to be trading on their own? Obviously if they are trading a bit bigger it's going to hold more weight. But at the end of the day if they show very good returns, low drawdowns, up days bigger than down days...firms will give them a chance as long as their strategy is scalable. If a guy who was trading 1-5 lots gets hired, he probably would start off with something like a 10 lot max, but if he shows good results the firm will scale him up and probably quickly if he's consistent. Will a guy who had been trading 1-5 lots be trading 300 in a few months? Most likely not....but a few years or so down the road....sure.
 
Do you see that you pretend that this is a continuation of the conversation but all the numbers that are here (and the 50/50 split is not here) are simply radically different.

The original contention I challenged from another poster was one contract to forty with 50/50 split. You are not maintaining that exists ... nor should you as it probably does not.

Remember, his contention was 50/50 and he extrapolated annual earnings from that base.

Quote from traderchi128:

Again..there are futures firms that will back guys 100% IF they have the statements to validate their strategy. As far as what size they have to be trading on their own? Obviously if they are trading a bit bigger it's going to hold more weight. But at the end of the day if they show very good returns, low drawdowns, up days bigger than down days...firms will give them a chance as long as their strategy is scalable. If a guy who was trading 1-5 lots gets hired, he probably would start off with something like a 10 lot max, but if he shows good results the firm will scale him up and probably quickly if he's consistent. Will a guy who had been trading 1-5 lots be trading 300 in a few months? Most likely not....but a few years or so down the road....sure.
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Quote from Swan Noir:

Do you see that you pretend that this is a continuation of the conversation but all the numbers that are here (and the 50/50 split is not here) are simply radically different.

The original contention I challenged from another poster was one contract to forty with 50/50 split. You are not maintaining that exists ... nor should you as it probably does not.

Remember, his contention was 50/50 and he extrapolated annual earnings from that base.
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Man....you a dragging this out. Do I know of guys who traded their own money with small accounts and got hired by one of the bigger prop firms ? Absolutely. Were they trading 1-5 lots with their own cash and were hired and got up to 40? Absolutely. Are they trading more than 40 contracts now? Absolutely.

When one gets hired by a real prop firm they are given a 50-50 split(or whatever that firm offers). Regardless of the size they traded elsewhere. I know of instances where firms up the payout to guys they REALLY wanted who had great track records.....but I haven't heard of firms saying "you only traded 5 lots before...instead of paying you 50% we are going to pay you 30%".


Not sure what else you want here...
 
I think the first sentence below is a joke. I'll read any response you care to give but when I am talking about a 50/50 split it is a world apart from 70/30 which you may be talking about. In fact there is no way to know what split you are speaking about. I have no doubt that there are firms that at some level of split will back a guy with a very consistent track record even if the size is as small as one contract. If it is your contention that I am mistaken and 50/50 splits are out there in the described circumstances ... say so.

YOU NEVER ACTUALLY SAY SO.

I have used a declarative sentence to say i do not believe that deal is out there for the one lot trader stepping up to even 10 contracts (NEVER MIND THE ORIGINAL 40) as a 50/50 deal and I believe I am correct. If you think I am wrong use a declarative sentence to say so. Not one that states a different proposition and pretends it is the same. The freaking split matters!! The numbers count. The step up is relevant. Apples to apples makes conversations real. Apples to oranges makes them bullshit.


Quote from traderchi128:


When one gets hired by a real prop firm they are given a 50-50 split(or whatever that firm offers).


Not sure what else you want here... [/B]
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Quote from Swan Noir:

I think the first sentence below is a joke. I'll read any response you care to give but when I am talking about a 50/50 split it is a world apart from 70/30 which you may be talking about. In fact there is no way to know what split you are speaking about. I have no doubt that there are firms that at some level of split will back a guy with a very consistent track record even if the size is as small as one contract. If it is your contention that I am mistaken and 50/50 splits are out there in the described circumstances ... say so.

YOU NEVER ACTUALLY SAY SO.

I have used a declarative sentence to say i do not believe that deal is out there for the one lot trader stepping up to even 10 contracts (NEVER MIND THE ORIGINAL 40) as a 50/50 deal and I believe I am correct. If you think I am wrong use a declarative sentence to say so. Not one that states a different proposition and pretends it is the same. The freaking split matters!! The numbers count. The step up is relevant. Apples to apples makes conversations real. Apples to oranges makes them bullshit.
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For the love of god....

These 50/50 splits are out there for small traders with a defined strategy/good track record that can be verified by statements. They will be hired trading a smaller book initially. Over time as they prove themselves their book grows. Not all firms want one lot guys, but if they like the guy, feel he has a good strategy with solid risk management, feel his strategy is scalable.....the he will be hired. Even if he is trading small in his own account.

As far as a 70-30 split. I don't believe I said they existed at many firms...if any at all.
 
I now know what you believe.

Quote from traderchi128:

For the love of god....

These 50/50 splits are out there for small traders with a defined strategy/good track record that can be verified by statements. They will be hired trading a smaller book initially. Over time as they prove themselves their book grows. Not all firms want one lot guys, but if they like the guy, feel he has a good strategy with solid risk management, feel his strategy is scalable.....the he will be hired. Even if he is trading small in his own account.

As far as a 70-30 split. I don't believe I said they existed at many firms...if any at all.
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Guys,

If one firm offers me a 30% payout and lets me trade 200 contracts and another offers a 60% payout and lets me trade 100 contracts, isn't that kind of the same thing?

I don't really get logic in any of this?

Runningbear
 
Quote from Runningbear:

Guys,

If one firm offers me a 30% payout and lets me trade 200 contracts and another offers a 60% payout and lets me trade 100 contracts, isn't that kind of the same thing?

I don't really get logic in any of this?

Runningbear
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More contracts = BSD
 
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