Getting Started With A Prop Firm

[Sinbin]

Hello,

I understand that there are other threads like this, but after reading them I haven’t gained anymore knowledge than I already have.

I recently graduated from a non-target school and have had numerous final round interviews/meetings with partners with places like FNYS, Chimera, Kershner, and many others. I’ve received offers from leveraged prop firms (Places like T3), but can’t seem to break into a good prop firm.

I’ve gotten the same “rejection notice” from over 5 firms all stating: “We think that you have a very good strategy and could be complacent in a futures/equity desk, but education is highly correlative to success in this industry. That is why we aren’t bringing you on.”...... I’ve even been told by one recruiter “you have a very good strategy for someone who went to a shitty school”... I didn’t know how to respond to that lol. All were told to me in person and not over email. I don’t know if that’s just a cop out move, but I feel they’re more respectable than lying.

I was given a chance in the first place because they wanted to check my results on my strategy:
***DEMO ACCOUNTS***
Futures: ($75K initial capital—> life of 4-5 months and Real Returns of ~200%)
Equity: ($10K initial capital—> life of 1 year and Real Returns of ~29.02%)

Once they saw they gave me interviews and brought me on to go over the strategy. Yes it is demo, but the demos were back tested on 2 cross-sectional accounts. I used multiple free 2-week ninja trader/CQGNet accounts to get used to the software and did the same trade at the same time on MockTrader so I can keep all the sequential data and match it.


Is it just the sentiment of the industry to segregate between “good” and “bad” schools? I didn’t even go to a bad school which is why I surprised about receiving those comments. Thanks for replying and helping!

Best,

Sinbin

 

[2rosy]

what school, major, gpa, test scores? I am unfamiliar with the firms you listed.

 

[Sinbin]

what school, major, gpa, test scores? I am unfamiliar with the firms you listed.

I went to University of Pittsburgh. Studied Economics (concentration of Corporate Finance, Monetary Policy, and Labor Econ) while also studies in Statistics and Political Science.

What do you mean by test scores?

 

[2rosy]

I went to University of Pittsburgh. Studied Economics (concentration of Corporate Finance, Monetary Policy, and Labor Econ) while also studies in Statistics and Political Science.

What do you mean by test scores?

ACT ,SAT . susquehanna and stevens capital are near you

 

[Sinbin]

ACT ,SAT . susquehanna and stevens capital are near you

Thank you, 2rosy! I’ve tried SIG, but didn’t make it past their interviews. Never heard of Stevens Capital, but I’ll look them up and give it a round.

 

[gaussian]

Is it just the sentiment of the industry to segregate between “good” and “bad” schools? I didn’t even go to a bad school which is why I surprised about receiving those comments. Thanks for replying and helping!

If you didn't go to a top 3 ivy you went to a bad school according to most, if not all, major financial firms. For props economics is likely a non-target degree (statistics, engineering, and computer science are primary targets) and as a result you are going to be leaning heavily on the pedigree of your program and extra studying. You could probably find a job as an analyst but prop shops and market makers look for degrees with heavy quantitative background. Majority of MMs hire out of financial engineering programs with other programs including pure mathematics, statistics, and computer science. EE and physics are also looked at (and the origin of the term "phynance").

Even ignoring the non-target school you used a demo account to show your abilities. This likely hinted at weakness. A true trader would've spent the last $5000 they had to get into a broker and trade their strategy for real. With demos you're getting unrealistic fills and none of the actual jitter of losing a mess of money making one bad move.

I would personally give up working in industry. If you want to, get an analyst job where you can lean on your corporate finance and economics background. Do that for 8 years and build up 15-25k of risk capital to strike it out on your own. If your strategies are that good you don't need a prop anyway.

EDIT:

I went to University of Pittsburgh. Studied Economics (concentration of Corporate Finance, Monetary Policy, and Labor Econ) while also studies in Statistics and Political Science.

https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/university-pittsburgh

80th in the nation. Not even close to "good".

Don't take this the wrong way, I also went to a non-target school ranked significantly worse than yours. Just don't ignore the fact your school isn't even top 10. It doesn't detract from your abilities as a person but if you're stacked against resumes from MIT, Stanford, UCLA, and Harvard you're basically screwed. The ivys have spent a lot of time and money convincing everyone they are the best even though the education in accredited programs is at-par with every other accredited program in the nation. You're not going to convince a bunch of middle managers at a prop shop who can barely add two numbers together that you're smart with that much money influencing their decisions.

 

[dealmaker]

I went to University of Pittsburgh. Studied Economics (concentration of Corporate Finance, Monetary Policy, and Labor Econ) while also studies in Statistics and Political Science.

What do you mean by test scores?

Through your alumni association find other Pittsburgh graduates who are already on Wall St and contact them before shot gunning more resumes; David Tepper for example is a Pittsburgh graduate.

 

[Sinbin]

If you didn't go to a top 3 ivy you went to a bad school according to most, if not all, major financial firms. For props economics is likely a non-target degree (statistics, engineering, and computer science are primary targets) and as a result you are going to be leaning heavily on the pedigree of your program and extra studying. You could probably find a job as an analyst but prop shops and market makers look for degrees with heavy quantitative background. Majority of MMs hire out of financial engineering programs with other programs including pure mathematics, statistics, and computer science. EE and physics are also looked at (and the origin of the term "phynance").

Even ignoring the non-target school you used a demo account to show your abilities. This likely hinted at weakness. A true trader would've spent the last $5000 they had to get into a broker and trade their strategy for real. With demos you're getting unrealistic fills and none of the actual jitter of losing a mess of money making one bad move.

I would personally give up working in industry. If you want to, get an analyst job where you can lean on your corporate finance and economics background. Do that for 8 years and build up 15-25k of risk capital to strike it out on your own. If your strategies are that good you don't need a prop anyway.

EDIT:



https://www.timeshighereducation.com/world-university-rankings/university-pittsburgh

80th in the nation. Not even close to "good".

Don't take this the wrong way, I also went to a non-target school ranked significantly worse than yours. Just don't ignore the fact your school isn't even top 10. It doesn't detract from your abilities as a person but if you're stacked against resumes from MIT, Stanford, UCLA, and Harvard you're basically screwed. The ivys have spent a lot of time and money convincing everyone they are the best even though the education in accredited programs is at-par with every other accredited program in the nation. You're not going to convince a bunch of middle managers at a prop shop who can barely add two numbers together that you're smart with that much money influencing their decisions.

Oh yeah, but I just never really understood this sentiment. Seems a little dry and outdated in my opinion. The logic of it is sound, but the mindset, in my opinion, is again... dry.

Through your alumni association find other Pittsburgh graduates who are already on Wall St and contact them before shot gunning more resumes; David Tepper for example is a Pittsburgh graduate.

Great advice! Thank you. I will do this too.

 

[DepthTrade]

They're total fools who can't really filter out good traders, so they rely on other qualifications. That way if you blow out, they can fall back on the fact that they hired from the best schools and it's not the employers fault.

 

[traider]

Oh yeah, but I just never really understood this sentiment. Seems a little dry and outdated in my opinion. The logic of it is sound, but the mindset, in my opinion, is again... dry.



Great advice! Thank you. I will do this too.

For 4 months you need a lot of trades to prove statistically that you have an edge. How many trades did you do? From what you've said, I assume u trade manually. If you are scalping futures for ticks, it is very different for live vs demo.