Getting some money

I don't have a problem with borrowing money... when done by someone who deeply understands the markets and trading.

The problem is these nitwits with dollar signs in their eyeballs looking for the next do-or-die goldmine.

Since when is it acceptable to lose someone else's money? I bet you, these are the same guys that were cheering for the Occupy Wall St gang... so now they would do the same?

Borrowing money from mum or dad, your wife or gf... or bank or credit card... it doesn't matter who you borrow from, if your idea is to put it all on red and if you lose too bad for the other one... that's just bad...

But then again, maybe it's just me... I was brought up with the idea that you spend part of the money you have, don't borrow to buy the newest jeans.. or phone... or whatever.
 
I tend to agree with JackRap. Borrowing is ok, if you have a plan, but if you're just going to bankrupt if you lose, that is horribly irresponsible. You're going to lose anyhow if your trade with that mentality.
 
SimpleTrades said:
I tend to agree with JackRap. Borrowing is ok, if you have a plan, but if you're just going to bankrupt if you lose, that is horribly irresponsible. You're going to lose anyhow if your trade with that mentality.
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Borrowing with something behind it maybe - an asset. Borrowing with just your ummm "skill" is reckless. Certainly not risk averse. We all understand that eventually.

Think of it as demo trading. Fake money or someone else's money. What the hey, go for it!!
 
SunTrader said:
Talk about dumb. A house can be foreclosed, a car repossessed. Lost trading funds ... are just that. Completely unsecured and gone. Well other than someone getting a judgement and trying to garnish wages and all kinds of other fun things.
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As my sarcasm detector is going off, I'll give you some leeway. Nowhere did I imply one should borrow on secured lines. In fact I completely agree with you.

Back to the thread:
Talking about risk management, it's absolutely retarded from a personal net worth risk management to borrow at the same rate secured if you can be unsecured. I'm with you guys on the responsibility part, but you guys have got it backwards.

Do you guys trade on margin? Trade futures, options? Guess what a margin account is? Did you put your house as collateral for the account? Exactly.
 
jj90 said:
Do you guys trade on margin? Trade futures, options? Guess what a margin account is? Did you put your house as collateral for the account? Exactly.
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This is sort of correct, however with a direct loan or loan from credit card you get to further multiply your margin.

With 0$ to your name, and a 30% margin requirement, you can borrow $25,000, and have $25000/.3 = $83333 of buying power. You have already been given access to 25K with a margin requirement of 0$ ( if unsecured), and now you get to further multiply this with a 30% margin requirement. Not only can you potentially lose the 25K borrowed, but you can lose a lot more.

Furthermore, in a margin account, your collateral is the securities in your account.

By the way, that is exactly what I am doing. However, I have substantially more value in my investments than I have debt.
 
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jj90 said:
Do you guys trade on margin? Trade futures, options? Guess what a margin account is? Did you put your house as collateral for the account? Exactly.
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You're completely missing the point here. Do you think this @Scalperten isn't going to trade on margin???

So, 5k + 20k debt... x10 margin all-in = 250k. So that's x50 own initial balance. And if he puts all eggs in futures that would mean he could get what... 5 mln worth of ES underlying, on a conservative account like IB which uses 5k margin instead of other brokers that use $500 initial margin... in that case he could get $50 mln worth of assets...

You do the maths how quickly he goes bust.... 10 points in ES (with IB account) will wipe him out and leave him with 20k debt. And don't start saying "when was the last time there was a 10 point move in ES!"... because that would be a dumb-ass remark.

He's inexperienced and he will take hits and will not cope with that...
 
JackRab said:
You're completely missing the point here. Do you think this @Scalperten isn't going to trade on margin???
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No we are talking about the same point. We are just on different sides on the fence. You are saying he would go bust with excessive leverage. I say let him.
 
Hello,
Robert Morse
I am currently using light speed software from India, there are no option for filters and atomic HI/LO scroller, i got to know you have that features in light scan that need to be configured with light speed,when will you provide light scan to indian customer or may be differnce with vendors or brokers
 
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