Getting rich in stocks like Dan Zanger or futures like Larry Williams not possible anymore?

[MKTrader]

Huh?? What does Algo got to do with trends? Look at the indices for the last 10 years! Had you simply bought and held an index fund throughout that time, you would have made a fortune already.

You would have also lost a big chunk in 2008 unless your started your account in 2009 due to blind luck or a magic crystal ball. Overall you'd still have a nice return if you include 2008 (low double-digit), but not a "fortune" unless you started with a huge amount or used leverage (a double-edged sword that might have blown your account up some point, like Dec. 2018).

Either way, no one has made short-term Zanger-like gains from buying and holding unleveraged index funds...ever. You missed the point of this thread.

The specific point I was talking about was playing trends, not buy-and-hold. Simple "Turtle" systems once worked pretty well, but markets now have enough whipsaws, reversals, chop and air pockets to make it very difficult to determine a strong trend and get out before you give up most gains (again, I'm not talking about buy and hold). That's the algos for you. And the Turtles didn't make Zanger-type returns either...more like 30% annually with some very big drawdowns...still enough to compound pretty quickly if you could handle your account falling 50% every couple of years or so.

 

[Handle123]

I have been playing this game a very long time. I not touched much of the inner game of working for prop shops, I don't work well with others, I prefer being lone wolf. A game that never have enough hours in a day, week, decades. The monster profits are still there, but you have to love to lose on one side and gain on the otherside when you are often way too early. You have to become better at risk than the other 99% of traders, risk is by far for me closest part of trading one can control, risk of loss and risks associated to how much of lost gains. What good is it to show the masses how much you made to only hide when one loses most of it as they were not prepared when trends switch.

I believe Williams had several accounts going when one of them made over 10,000%, but what is not advertised the contest ended as that account was in huge drawdown, don't remember very well, but perhaps he had lost 50% when contest ended, and accounts his company managed thereafter lost at Robbins?

Scalping or day trading always going to be most difficult for me with exception of automation. So many rules to remember in micro seconds and risk is insane and reward too little. People afraid of gaps in stocks, they really happen in day trading as well, this an occurrence wont happen again? Yeah right. I like gaps in stocks, learn how to spot strong trends.

There will always be huge trends somewhere, but how many people like on this forum are so closed minded to explore other areas of the game. You stay in anything long enough...you might be able to figure it out, trailing stops screw up huge trend moves, learn to hedge very well, learn to hedge the hedge the hedge, think outside of the box, when people say YOU can't do something, keep at it, they not learned how to do something. Then keep your mouth shut.

I so laugh when people say trends of years don't happen, people are looking too often at daily charts, try weekly and monthly. See if you can stay in trends years of rollovers in futures and add on positions while selling options and doing spreads. Instead of buying/selling stocks, learn options well, trade weekly options for bigger kicks. Learn how not to quit on yourself.

 

[schizo]

You would have also lost a big chunk in 2008 unless your started your account in 2009 due to blind luck or a magic crystal ball. Overall you'd still have a nice return if you include 2008 (low double-digit), but not a "fortune" unless you started with a huge amount or used leverage (a double-edged sword that might have blown your account up some point, like Dec. 2018).

No I wouldn't. Sure, I would theoretically have loss on paper. But suppose I simply rode through 2008 (isn't that what buy and hold mean?), I would have recouped all that loss and reaped a windfall of profit.

Either way, no one has made short-term Zanger-like gains from buying and holding unleveraged index funds...ever. You missed the point of this thread.

The specific point I was talking about was playing trends, not buy-and-hold.

Trends happen all the time. Even now, today.

 

[MKTrader]

No I wouldn't. Sure, I would theoretically have loss on paper. But suppose I simply rode through 2008 (isn't that what buy and hold mean?), I would have recouped all that loss and reaped a windfall of profit.

Trends happen all the time. Even now, today.

You continue to miss the entire point of this thread. Making 10-15% holding an index fund during a bull maket has nothing to with someone taking a $10K account into over a million in a year or two.

 

[tomas262]

I have been playing this game a very long time. I not touched much of the inner game of working for prop shops, I don't work well with others, I prefer being lone wolf. A game that never have enough hours in a day, week, decades. The monster profits are still there, but you have to love to lose on one side and gain on the otherside when you are often way too early. You have to become better at risk than the other 99% of traders, risk is by far for me closest part of trading one can control, risk of loss and risks associated to how much of lost gains. What good is it to show the masses how much you made to only hide when one loses most of it as they were not prepared when trends switch.

I believe Williams had several accounts going when one of them made over 10,000%, but what is not advertised the contest ended as that account was in huge drawdown, don't remember very well, but perhaps he had lost 50% when contest ended, and accounts his company managed thereafter lost at Robbins?

I love your post. If I respected risk religiously I would already be a $$ millionaire!! Damn ego, fuck hope

 

[stepan7]

Hello everybody,

I am wondering what the consensus on this is:

1. Is it still possible to take a small amount of money ($10,000/$20,000) and turn it into 15 million or more like Zanger did (40 million) swing trading stocks at a proprietary firm (or is that doubtful due to less available leverage today)?

2. What about turning $10,000 or $20,000 into a million or more (like Larry Williams did) at the World Cup Championship of Futures Trading?

Honestly, I can't even find a broker that would allow overnight trading (FUTURES) unless your account is much bigger.

That being said, neither of these seem possible to me unless:

For #1, you are treating stocks like a gamble and only using prop leverage to Day-Trade.

For #2, I'm unsure of, but it seems possible with a larger deposit (like 40k+) and a broker that would allow you to play by certain rules.

Hope, it help to boost your confidence. => Day Trader Millionaire Calculator