Getting down and dirty is where the rubber meets the road ...

This is a summary of where I am right now or what I (think) know or don't know:

1. Building tapes from two bars (9 or 10 cases). Seems to work most of the times. Hesitation appears in areas where multiple internals follow each other. Or where for example there is a possibility to draw two opposite translations with three bars (i.e. bar 2 HH+HL than bar 1 and then bar 3 again LH+LL than bar 2. The same is possible in the other direction)

2. Building trading fractals (traverses) from tapes and channels from traverses. Starting to create them. Not sure I know everything I should know or understand everything what was already told. Will continue to construct them and make adjustments according to the feedback that I get.

3. Volume. "Volume leads price". Maybe, but I still need to see this and to be sure I really understand this. Like with "…treat the internals as one bar…" there are probably different possibilities to interpret those three words depending on your background. Need to make sure I have the correct meaning of those three words.

4. Volume gaussian lines. Start to apply them. Sometimes it is crystal clear which line must be drawn and why but in other situations it doesn't seem to be that obvious. For example there are situations where I would see rising black/red followed by decreasing black/red. Need to improve it.

5. B2B2R2B or R2R2B2R. Here my question would be: Is this the complete sequence which means after completion a new sequence IS or MUST begin. Or could it be for example that first you have your B2B2R2B and then before it goes to R2R…. it first continues for a while with 2R2B2R2B…?

6. Pace (lines). At the moment I look at it together with PRV but more to to see how far the current bar could go and if it could become an internal.

7. m1 and m2. No clue yet what they are, why they are important and how to recognize them.

8. Jumping fractals. What does that mean exactly? Why is it good or bad? How can I recognize I'm "jumping"? How to prevent it?

9. ftts or FTTs. Seem to be able to recognize them most of the time.

10. Translation bars (red or black). This is where the money is made. At the same time they don't seem to be too far from either a previous or a future ftt(FTT).

11. Fanning. Important to catch the ftts as soon as possible.

12. Laterals or lateral formations. Right now they are not something I even consider on a chart. Do I need them?

I hope that through my work and the feedback that I get that I soon can move on to the next stage. For example we still need to talk about the (7) leading indicators for the FDAX, K200 or whatever the instrument is. But that's later for me.
 
Quote from frenchfry:

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5. B2B2R2B or R2R2B2R. Here my question would be: Is this the complete sequence which means after completion a new sequence IS or MUST begin. Or could it be for example that first you have your B2B2R2B and then before it goes to R2R…. it first continues for a while with 2R2B2R2B…?
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8. Jumping fractals. What does that mean exactly? Why is it good or bad? How can I recognize I'm "jumping"? How to prevent it?
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I can say with absolute certainty that a B2B2R2B cycle can definitely have cycle extension with further pairs of 2R2B, with no limit. Likewise, an R2R2B2R could extend with further pairs of 2B2R. What we CANNOT have, under any circumstances is a B2B followed immediately by R2R, on the same fractal. i.e. B2B2R2R. If we see something like this, the B2B and R2R are on different fractals.

Jumping fractals - this is the $64,000 question............. knowing what bars belong to what fractal. I suspect volume provides the answer but I have yet to see a definitive, unambiguous way to know how volume tells us we are on a different fractal cycle.
 
Quote from jack hershey:

THIS IS THE METHOD.

Three frctal lelvels,

status of pattern in each fractal

You can state what the next element is in the order of events of each fractal.

Since you have done drills on the log for all fractals though the entire order of events many times as a drill, it is possible to rough out the upcoming log for the next day (including bookmarking potential spots.

Look at my follow up on traderzones' pottery prowess recently. I simply listed the next 17teen tradable events and the tining within 5 to 7 minutes of the shift in overall market sentiment the next day.

the iillustration shows with brevity the carry over and the next events after carry over for the next day.

Super post. thanks so much.
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Jack, would you review how to use the slow fractal, the "context"?
 
Quote from dkm:
Jumping fractals - this is the $64,000 question............. knowing what bars belong to what fractal. I suspect volume provides the answer but I have yet to see a definitive, unambiguous way to know how volume tells us we are on a different fractal cycle. [/B]
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Jack started to go there with this post to Frenchfry:

Quote from jack hershey:

By having your work posted many many people do get to see the three trading fractals on ES and for some of your annotations there is some sub fast fractal annotation during the DU and VDU PACE shown by volume. this is called fractal jumping. The blue baox area has some sub flaover too.

the green bookmarks also fell off the DKM 107 8 chart in the area of the blue box region. The green bookmarks denoted how the NEW FTT's subsequently came into being on the last move of the slow fractal.
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Frenchfry's chart: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2825270

But I'm afraid we've lost him to other threads, once again. Just as it looked like progress was about to be made. :eek:
 
Quote from Ezzy:

Jack started to go there with this post to Frenchfry:



Frenchfry's chart: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2825270

But I'm afraid we've lost him to other threads, once again. Just as it looked like progress was about to be made. :eek:
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Hopefully, Jack will continue on this matter. I post yesterday's chart. Think I might not have annotated the channels correctly but I did get some r2r b2b on the fast fractal. So are those areas circled examples of fractals jumping ?

I can only draw 1 channel up but that doesn't seem right either since I only have 2 trading fractal channels for the day. So can the channel be having a pt 3 at bar 67 2:55 pm even though the volume is peaking there ? :confused:

Appreciate some comments on errors made on chart and the reasons why.

TIA.

emac
 

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Quote from jack hershey:



As we see the volume is unfortuneately anchored to an axis. By using a searate pane for volume relationships, you get the advantage of keeping the dom and non dom in the picture for each of the nested fractal patterns. the way to ease the drawing of the interrelationship is to just let the faster lines cross the slower lines. It becomes very apparent why the four volume moves are required to cover the three price annotation moves.

This is another of the giant AHA's of trading the markets. I rate it as a religious expereince when it gets to the catecism level.
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Here is an example of last October that shows the seperate pane for volume and how it can be a leading indicator of price. Hope you guys like it.


http://www.charthub.com/images/2009/10/21/FulcrumTrader_Z_9
 
Quote from emac:

Hopefully, Jack will continue on this matter. I post yesterday's chart. Think I might not have annotated the channels correctly ...
emac
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FWIW, this is what I ended up with. Knowing how to recognize that one has "jumped a fractal" remains unclear.
 

Attachments

Quote from Ezzy:

Jack started to go there with this post to Frenchfry:



Frenchfry's chart: http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/attachment.php?s=&postid=2825270

But I'm afraid we've lost him to other threads, once again. Just as it looked like progress was about to be made. :eek:
More...

I've been looking at the charts everyone posted.

By examining them in detail, I get to see what is at hand to proceed.

I put up the critiques and drills because I have seen how people follow a path to success and do the drills suggested to accomplish two things: give background quickly and provide pragmatic skills for moving ahead.

Fractal jumping has a singular cause: a sparse background relative to the market involved. These words mean nothing, so I need to bear down on solving the problem of fractal jumping.

The steps that lead to the solution are:

1. doing carryover.

2. doing degapping.

3. continuing to do three nested fractals patterns in parallel.

4. logging the mutations of the forming bars.

The charts posted show clearly that the point 1's of each of the three fractals in play are not showing on the charts. Carry over in the debriefing shows the three fractal pattern end status and can have a reference to the bars from which the respective three parallelograms are drawn. This will begin to reveal (at the open and thereafter) where the fractals are operating and just what is in or out of those patterns.

In the k200 the relationship of the three fractals is as follows: fast is the sub; trading is the BBT; and slow is the tape. What is commonly happening is that there is confusion in "context" and sub subs (sub fasts are drawn). It takes a full pattern of sub fasts(sub subs) to complete a leg of a fast.

Do ing degapping allows the parallel off set of the three nested fractal line pairs (RTL and LTL) to be put in place and to provide "context".

Ve's and VE's occur in a context. Therefore acceleration has a context and is not arbitrarily done by making up M of Mada rules of your choosing.

All fractal points have context. The most important context is the point 3 context relative to point 1 because it determines the limits of the order of events with respect to market sentiment a P, V context. Sentiment is a context.

Here the limit of context is done with a bookmark green from a point 1. I am using the term point 1 because it is a begging point of a NEW context and the OLD context has been terminated for the time being.

DKM ignores the sentiment context as determined by the green bookmark on all three levels of the nested fractal right from the beginning of the day and through the day. So do many others. I am not calling out DKM; all I am doing is using his chart and its pertinent examples on this matter.

A parallelogram in our work is the most informative shape (formation (pattern)) that the mind's operators, O1, O2 and O3 have available. O1 is spatial; O2 is patterns; O3 is movement. The parallelograms "contain" the pattern and the order of events. As you sense with these operators, your built LT memory matches inference to give you perception for use in ADA of MADA.

Jumping fractals can be logged by dividing the fast (sub) column into two parts. The sub sub moves are inside the fast fractal (sub of BBT). Pragmatically, you see these easily on the YM and they are leading moves (in the sub sub order of events). To just use the 5 min chart is a good idea becuae it is a skill enhancer over time.

Here is how to focus on the 5 minute bar and get good data sets for M. The Data set has a one to one correspondence with the element of Analysis finite set. The relationship is invariant. You look at the mutation of the forming bar interms of cases. It is either dominant or nondominant. as shown in the drills that led to the 3d Excel sheets. Concurrently you complete the volume shhet that shows how the accumulating volume is doninant or non dominant. Neutral is a vertical path. dominant is a path that "leans to the left of vertical; non dominant is a path that "eans" to the right of vertical. for IBGS situations, during the path the "leaning" swithes from one binary case to the other binary case. Non dom to dom occurs simultaneously on P and V as the price bar becomes X and the lean swing across neutral CCW. Other examples are R to B stiches (and the opposite B to R) and on OB's whereby, for, V the CCW swing also applies. As sensitivity grows, using the PRV shadow and considering the three "movements" of its parts becomes a substitute for using the volume sheet to determine dom or non dom proceedings. The top goes up or down, the actual increases with two derivatives and the unfilled shadow decreases with two derivatives.

At this point a person is "watching with perception" how the sub fractal within the fast fractal is going about its order of events. I use the term vernier (an engineering expression) often to comment upon "looking inside" things as a drilling down on what is going on that is outright observable.

Going back up to the multibar aspects of our three fractals afforss the normal MADA rep rate for getting the job done. First, make it a smooth thing to deal with two bars becoming one bar. Deal smoothly with what is the open and close and simply assign the extreme high and low occurance to the one bar phantom. You will likely use the high or low for drawing lines. When two bars are becoming one bar, it is an up to 10 minute event. So let time pressures you create fade into oblivion once and for all.

As volume PACE drops into DU and below to VDU, then notice that alot more time is required to creep through a fast fractal pattern. you have already noticed that as volume goes from extreme and high to hign and medium that the fractal oredr of events slows down. the opoem makes more money sine more points are passed in the order of events as time passes. Under DU and VDU tiome spread out and seems to slow down. thus, you get a chance to drill down and look "inside" of what is going on. Annotate accordingly on a sub fast (sub sub) level.

Notice that the outer fractal lines are more and more remote from price activity and vloume differences peak to trough are smaller relative values.

The SCT method of using MADA has to do with the precision of effectivenss and efficiency increasing with knowldege and skills. It took a while to get to jumping fractals and when it shows up, it is a time to go back over being earnest in getting the job done. Its like flying through volcanic tuff; small things matter. Our hanger in Lander, WY allowed us to check out a jet that flew through a volcano plume and make a forced landing. It had no jet power (sandpapered impellers no glassification) and frosted pilot cockpit windows.

From here on out we are "powering up" by adding precion to our efforts. We are engineering the mind to be high powered by being able to "read" the market with all the indicators available. Annotating thoroughly is a requirement.

Bookmark point 1's and box all internals. Annnotate concurrently P and V on three nested levels.

Handle VE's VE's and acceleration. Draw rtl's of M1 and M2's., @ points 1's trim the extentions of lines into the future that no longer apply. Make sure you have the BO's of rtl's and RTl's right thre with the volume corresponding annotated troughs. Then you did the work to know a dominant is ensuing on the way to the next volume PEAK and you are on the way to point 2 outside the corresponding rtl or RTL. This alone STOPS fractal jumping.

I'm a little tense here, med visit yesterday and blood samples tomorrow.
 
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