Germany is the country that has never repaid its debts. It has no standing to lecture other nations

[volpunter]

let's see about this my dear friend. Last time I checked the debate was about Greece getting kicked out or admitting to more austerity. Germany's fate is not under discussion in Europe at the moment. Also whether Europe/union breaks apart or not is not under discussion (though a lot of EU haters drool over the possibility of this happening), Greece must make a decision this Sunday.

They defaulted 5 times before that too which is why the rest of the world looks at germany and shakes its head, in their superstate seeking fanaticism the CLEAR SCREAMING OBVIOUS UNSUITABILITY of greece to join was pushed aside, and now you pay or you lose union

 

[volpunter]

interesting GS is suddenly brought to the surface. Some Jews are just too sleek for this planet: First they, while working for GS, structure and assist in setting up toxic schemes. Then they quit (or are fired), and start a firm where they advice former clients to fuxx up GS. Hilarious. Some people really do not take prisoners.

vp, we're not necessarily in disagreement. As I said: "fair to all parties involved."

It's not surprising one bit Goldman Sachs is somehow involved in this bullshit from the beginning.

 

[gwb-trading]

The reduction comes closer to 50% not 9x% as you claim. What a country files and what it truly owes is entirely different as you yourself even pointed out but subsequently ignored. What claim do I really have against you when I say you owe me 200 billion because of an ill researched post?

The Potsdam Conference outlined the procedures to be used for defining the reparations that must be paid by Germany. The post-war Committee on Reparations defined the total amount that must be paid as 320 billion after reviewing the claims.

Germany did not pay Greece a single deutschemark in economic damage claims, Greece was only paid for the effective looting of their central bank. In 1942, the Greek Central Bank was forced by the occupying Nazi regime to loan 476 million Reichsmarks at 0% interest to Nazi Germany. In 1960, Greece accepted 115 million Marks as compensation for this loan. Several Greek governments have insisted that this was only a down-payment, not complete reparations.

Maybe Germany needs to extend a loan to Greece on equivalent terms - the present day value equivalent of 476 million marks -- which would be close to 5 billion Euros once time & currency conversion is figured in. Of course, this would be at 0% interest. Of course, Greece should only pay back 24.2% of this loan 18 years from now to align with the German settlement.

 

[gwb-trading]

a) which sacrifices were made to allow Germany to unify? By the way it was not Thatcher, nor the UK or anyone in Europe that allowed the unification to happen. It was Russia and Gorbachev who decided not to intervene militarily when the PEOPLE themselves in East Germany and Eastern Blocks decided to rid themselves of communism and socialism.

b) Germany assured for overge 50 years that it had become peaceful and a reliable and wealthy economic and political partner. After the UK and possibly Canada, Germany is probably the closest American partner. So, of course if you listen to hateful Ms. Thatcher you will get all kinds of ideas, but else I do not see evidence how Germany was not a trusted partner at the time of reunification.

c) German Mark the strongest? Yes with a monetary union strong economies in Europe enjoy a relatively cheaper Euro while weaker countries suffer from a relatively stronger Euro. That is Econ 101, Greece knew about it, and had the choice not to join the Monetary Union IN THE SAME WAY THE UK chose not to join. Free Choice my friend.

d) we do not export olives my friend, we export BMW, Mercedes, VW, precision machinery, my friend. All the goodies that you love and desire to have.

Let's take a look at the broader picture .... Germany exports the equivalent of about 40 percent of its GDP, this is an enormous amount. For comparison, the United States exports 10% of its GDP and China 30%. Germany's industrial production is much greater than what it can consume domestically. If Germany were even to lose part of its exports, the internal repercussions would be severe.

Germany needs to sustain full employment, this requires more than simply exporting products. In order to do this Germany uses its dominant position within the EU to drive polices that are beneficial to Germany. As an economic power (rather than a military or political one), the instruments set up by the EU are the only means for Germany to control EU members who consume more than half of all it's exports. Germany continually used these EU levers, free trade, regulations, the euro's values, and the banking system to shape the system to take care of Germany's needs - unfortunately all of these policies were economically destructive to the majority of other countries within the EU.

Germany does not want to to pay for what they see as Greek indolence and corruption. The narrative from Germany is that the hardworking, disciplined Germans are enduring the feckless and irresponsible southern Europeans. Furthermore Germany should not bear the burdens of southern European indebtedness.

The next stride in the German narrative is that northern European values are superior to southern Europeans. The southerners can not be trusted to successfully manage their affairs, only the more responsible northern Europeans can impose the discipline and hard-work by taking the southern Europeans by the hand and vigorously compelling the inept southerners down the proper path of austerity, no matter the local economic pain endured by the southern population.

The bottom line is this is what the austerity argument is all about. Who should bear the burden of the EU crisis?

At this point IMO it would be best for both Europe and Greece to remove Greece from using the Euro, forgive many of its debts, and re-capitalizing the country in new local currency with further internationally backed loans while easing off the austerity provisions greatly. The focus should be getting Greece's economy moving again while de-coupling it from the EU economic infrastructure but improving trade.

 

[volpunter]

If we asked your country to pay economic damage claim then it would be bankrupt many times over. Bizarre hipocracy that you are applying here

The Potsdam Conference outlined the procedures to be used for defining the reparations that must be paid by Germany. The post-war Committee on Reparations defined the total amount that must be paid as 320 billion after reviewing the claims.

Germany did not pay Greece a single deutschemark in economic damage claims, Greece was only paid for the effective looting of their central bank. In 1942, the Greek Central Bank was forced by the occupying Nazi regime to loan 476 million Reichsmarks at 0% interest to Nazi Germany. In 1960, Greece accepted 115 million Marks as compensation for this loan. Several Greek governments have insisted that this was only a down-payment, not complete reparations.

Maybe Germany needs to extend a loan to Greece on equivalent terms - the present day value equivalent of 476 million marks -- which would be close to 5 billion Euros once time & currency conversion is figured in. Of course, this would be at 0% interest. Of course, Greece should only pay back 24.2% of this loan 18 years from now to align with the German settlement.

 

[volpunter]

Bla bla bla...thanks for the lecture on socialist propaganda speech. Nothing changes though, Greeks gotta offer something to the rest of Europe or fuxx off. I know you hate Germany's dominance and it actually amuses me how fired up you get about Germans. Are your ancestors victims of German war crimes? Or how else do we understand your belief in anecdotes and lies?

Let's take a look at the broader picture .... Germany exports the equivalent of about 40 percent of its GDP, this is an enormous amount. For comparison, the United States exports 10% of its GDP and China 30%. Germany's industrial production is much greater than what it can consume domestically. If Germany were even to lose part of its exports, the internal repercussions would be severe.

Germany needs to sustain full employment, this requires more than simply exporting products. In order to do this Germany uses its dominant position within the EU to drive polices that are beneficial to Germany. As an economic power (rather than a military or political one), the instruments set up by the EU are the only means for Germany to control EU members who consume more than half of all it's exports. Germany continually used these EU levers, free trade, regulations, the euro's values, and the banking system to shape the system to take care of Germany's needs - unfortunately all of these policies were economically destructive to the majority of other countries within the EU.

Germany does not want to to pay for what they see as Greek indolence and corruption. The narrative from Germany is that the hardworking, disciplined Germans are enduring the feckless and irresponsible southern Europeans. Furthermore Germany should not bear the burdens of southern European indebtedness.

The next stride in the German narrative is that northern European values are superior to southern Europeans. The southerners can not be trusted to successfully manage their affairs, only the more responsible northern Europeans can impose the discipline and hard-work by taking the southern Europeans by the hand and vigorously compelling the inept southerners down the proper path of austerity, no matter the local economic pain endured by the southern population.

The bottom line is this is what the austerity argument is all about. Who should bear the burden of the EU crisis?

At this point IMO it would be best for both Europe and Greece to remove Greece from using the Euro, forgive many of its debts, and re-capitalizing the country in new local currency with further internationally backed loans while easing off the austerity provisions greatly. The focus should be getting Greece's economy moving again while de-coupling it from the EU economic infrastructure but improving trade.

 

[gwb-trading]

If we asked your country to pay economic damage claim then it would be bankrupt many times over. Bizarre hipocracy that you are applying here

And yet Germany did not even pay for the gold they looted out of the Greek central bank.

 

[volpunter]

Re Greece you are dreaming. I think you misread the German stance towards Greece. Gifts are over. Greece gets nothing whatsoever if it leaves and if it stays then it needs to embark on radical reforms. Radikale Reformen mein kommunistischer Genosse.

Let's take a look at the broader picture .... Germany exports the equivalent of about 40 percent of its GDP, this is an enormous amount. For comparison, the United States exports 10% of its GDP and China 30%. Germany's industrial production is much greater than what it can consume domestically. If Germany were even to lose part of its exports, the internal repercussions would be severe.

Germany needs to sustain full employment, this requires more than simply exporting products. In order to do this Germany uses its dominant position within the EU to drive polices that are beneficial to Germany. As an economic power (rather than a military or political one), the instruments set up by the EU are the only means for Germany to control EU members who consume more than half of all it's exports. Germany continually used these EU levers, free trade, regulations, the euro's values, and the banking system to shape the system to take care of Germany's needs - unfortunately all of these policies were economically destructive to the majority of other countries within the EU.

Germany does not want to to pay for what they see as Greek indolence and corruption. The narrative from Germany is that the hardworking, disciplined Germans are enduring the feckless and irresponsible southern Europeans. Furthermore Germany should not bear the burdens of southern European indebtedness.

The next stride in the German narrative is that northern European values are superior to southern Europeans. The southerners can not be trusted to successfully manage their affairs, only the more responsible northern Europeans can impose the discipline and hard-work by taking the southern Europeans by the hand and vigorously compelling the inept southerners down the proper path of austerity, no matter the local economic pain endured by the southern population.

The bottom line is this is what the austerity argument is all about. Who should bear the burden of the EU crisis?

At this point IMO it would be best for both Europe and Greece to remove Greece from using the Euro, forgive many of its debts, and re-capitalizing the country in new local currency with further internationally backed loans while easing off the austerity provisions greatly. The focus should be getting Greece's economy moving again while de-coupling it from the EU economic infrastructure but improving trade.

 

[volpunter]

Germany paid for all legally binding claims. About ridiculous and made up claims German politicians do not waste precious minutes to even think about. Peace out my friend

And yet Germany did not even pay for the gold they looted out of the Greek central bank.

 

[gwb-trading]

Germany paid for all legally binding claims. About ridiculous and made up claims German politicians do not waste precious minutes to even think about. Peace out my friend

You disagree that the Germans looted 476 million marks in gold out of the Greek central bank in 1942 as a 0% "loan", and only re-paid 115 million Marks in compensation in 1960? This is well documented in history.

Germany paid back a mere 6.61% of the legally binding claims.