German derivatives traders shocked by new tax law

murray t turtle said:
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Sounds like if one has $250,000; you could buy a book written by a tax lawyer.Or simply moVe to US, like some of my relatives did.................................................................
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what visa did they apply for? It's not easy to gain residence in the USA. Best way I know is either work visa but that requires sponsorship or a business visa
 
Holy crap, I'm seriously afraid this shit conjured by someone with their brain turned off will diffuse here to Sweden.

I don't mind paying taxes. I do mind paying taxes on money that never existed. Losing trades is cost of doing business and achieving winning trades, failing to understand this and then write legislation on it is beyond retarded.

At least those with 100% win rates won't be impacted... ;-)
 
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Jahrelange harte Arbeit für nichts !? SierraChart tschüss !!! Ich kann es nicht glauben.....
Alternativen ? Habe mal gegoogelt soll wohl auf ganz Europa ausgeweitet werden ! Deutsche EU Chefin !!!
Was machen wir deutschen EU Trader jetzt !????
 
Snuskpelle said:
Holy crap, I'm seriously afraid this shit conjured by someone with their brain turned off will diffuse here to Sweden.

I don't mind paying taxes. I do mind paying taxes on money that never existed. Losing trades is cost of doing business and achieving winning trades, failing to understand this and then write legislation on it is beyond retarded.

At least those with 100% win rates won't be impacted... ;-)
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rather strange way of tax computation.

Are they going to expand this way of computation to goods and services providers companies?

ie
group all gains
minus
group all losses ( but cap at $ xyz)

then pay tax at whatever rate.
 
One, two, three, four
One, two (one, two, three, four!)

Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
Cause I'm the taxman
Yeah, I'm the taxman (yeah, I'm the taxman)

Should five per cent appear too small?
Be thankful I don't take it all
Cause I'm the taxman
Yeah, I'm the taxman (yeah, I'm the taxman)-- The Beatles
 
The change only seems to apply within the Abgeltungsteuer. But this type of tax can easily be avoided by use of the Günstigerprüfung. Mark the corresponding box in your tax forms and you'll pay either Abgeltungsteuer or your personalized tax rate on all your income, whichever is less. And since the rules for the latter haven't changed, losses from derivatives can then be deducted as before. Also a broker outside Germany won't automatically transfer Abgeltungsteuer, it's your own responsibility to take care of taxes after the year, enabling you to pay the lesser rate.

serveimage.png

To avoid that altogether, have a company (anywhere) to trade through as the Abgeltungsteuer only applies to natural persons. Or alternatively, trade as a natural person but move your legal residence outside Germany.
 
Hittfeld said:
German derivatives traders are shocked by new tax law. It was pushed almost secretly through parliament during xmas holidays. This tax code amendment (..to diminish speculation..) was hidden in an amendment of a law concerning e-mobility.

The new regulation will effectively tax you at more (much more) of your total net profits: It requires annual summing up of all winning trades (separate legs) and separately all losing trades (losing legs). Spreads or multi leg trades (iron condors etc) are 2 ore more separate trades.

Now you deduct the sum of your losing trades -capped at 10k total- from the total of your winning trades. This final sum is taxed at 26.3% .

In other words: All of your winning trades are taxed at 26.3% - and you are allowed to deduct a total of 2,630.00 € instead of all of your losing trades/legs.

This makes futures, options and cfd trading impossible.

This applies naturally only to individual persons, not legal entities.
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Link? A quick search on google and I couldn't find anything.
 
[QUOTE = "newwurldmn, post: 4997982, member: 261656"] Link? Eine schnelle Suche auf Google und ich konnte nichts finden. [/ QUOTE]
 
longshort said:
The change only seems to apply within the Abgeltungsteuer. But this type of tax can easily be avoided by use of the Günstigerprüfung. Mark the corresponding box in your tax forms and you'll pay either Abgeltungsteuer or your personalized tax rate on all your income, whichever is less. And since the rules for the latter haven't changed, losses from derivatives can then be deducted as before. Also a broker outside Germany won't automatically transfer Abgeltungsteuer, it's your own responsibility to take care of taxes after the year, enabling you to pay the lesser rate.

View attachment 217251

To avoid that altogether, have a company (anywhere) to trade through as the Abgeltungsteuer only applies to natural persons. Or alternatively, trade as a natural person but move your legal residence outside Germany.
More...

Günstigerprüfung doesn`t help!
 
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