German derivatives traders shocked by new tax law

[crabshooter]

This is most interesting, especially as I have different figures from 2005 -2015:

Basic costs fo structure (running a GmbH vs. private accounts): Forming corporation: 3000 USD
Running corporation: Memberships, accounting etc 4000 USD p.a.
Trading related additional costs: Professional Trading Fees ( CME,CBOE, ICE ...) > 150 each PER month.

100 USD profit made by the firm will 50 USD net after taxes when paid out on your personal account (i.e. after all taxes of the corporation and your personal income tax (AbgeltungsSteuer)


The costs for creating a Mini-GmbH are negligible and the annual costs are minimal if you are just trading and furnish broker statements to your accountant.

As long as you keep the money in the company you only pay about 1,5% in taxes, thats better than the 26,5% you would have to pay if youre trading privately. So thats 25% more trading capital available in your account.

And if you funded the company with a loan then the payments up to that amount are taxfree when repaid.

 

[Hittfeld]

LOL

so correct me if i'm wrong but if you make 100k euros in gross profit by EOY by having 500k in wins and 400k in losses, then you'd have to pay (131,500 - 2630) = 128,870 euros in taxes?

so basically you'd end up owing money even after having a gross profit of 100k euros EOY? who the hell even comes up with stuff like this?

is this only for German stocks/derivatives or does this still apply if you're a German trading derivatives on non-German exchanges like the CME?

Yes your calculation is correct!

Applies to any trading exchanges.

Thanks

 

[murray t turtle]

Applies to any trading exchanges.

Thanks

%%
I'm not a trading exchange+ I don't pay negative interest also.
BUT I doubt a trading exchange pays anywhere near that rate.LOL. But I cant really keep up with the euro zone regs. But I did fly thru the Chicago USa airport + the [exchange] got a city/county or state tax cut, or they were gong somewhere else.So they [exchange] got the tax cut+ on federal taxes there is more than one right answer.....……………………………………………………………………………..Thanks; I give more to the private sector[ not the gov] than I have to.

 

[d08]

Germany is one of the worst places to live in from what I've seen. The Germans I know in Germany are all cranky and frustrated as well. Quite a lot emigrate.

 

[d08]

Hey do you have a source for this? Does this apply to other countries in the EU?

Tax laws in Europe are per country. The second this stops being the case and Germany starts to dictate tax laws, the EU will disintegrate.

 

[ironchef]

To create a legal entity, such as a LLC, in Germany is a no brainer and costs almost nothing. Trading profits are taxfree and only 5% are added to taxable income, making the actual tax about 1.5%(!).
While losses can be offset against profits they cannot be carried forward. So if your losses exceed your gains for a given tax year youre f*cked.

You don't need 250K as @Hittfeld said?

 

[murray t turtle]

You don't need 250K as @Hittfeld said?

%%
Sounds like if one has $250,000; you could buy a book written by a tax lawyer.Or simply moVe to US, like some of my relatives did.................................................................

 

[maxinger]

Well. I guess German govt can collect millions of dollars from the new tax law.

On positive side, it means
German derivatives trader can earn millions of dollars.

 

[crabshooter]

The initial costs of creating a Mini-GmbH are

You don't need 250K as @Hittfeld said?

There are no minimum capital requirements, its just a matter of how much trading youre doing. If you have sizable profits and losses then this is the best way to do it. After all, you cant beat a tax rate of 1.5% on NET profits since losses can be offset in FULL against profits.
In fact, you can do this with any german company...its not necessary to create a new entity.

 

[tomtr27]

wenn das so bleibt, dann wars das für mich! Deutschland du kotzt mich an. bäh
Was würde passieren, wenn das in den USA so kommt! Planen tun Sie es ja! (Sanders)
ich bin grad sowas von Sauer, weiss grad gar nicht wohin!?
Jahrelang mit Sierrachart und nun alles für die Katz !? Boah ey muss erstmal durchatmen !