German derivatives traders shocked by new tax law

Hittfeld said:
German derivatives traders are shocked by new tax law. It was pushed almost secretly through parliament during xmas holidays. This tax code amendment (..to diminish speculation..) was hidden in an amendment of a law concerning e-mobility.

The new regulation will effectively tax you at more (much more) of your total net profits: It requires annual summing up of all winning trades (separate legs) and separately all losing trades (losing legs). Spreads or multi leg trades (iron condors etc) are 2 ore more separate trades.

Now you deduct the sum of your losing trades -capped at 10k total- from the total of your winning trades. This final sum is taxed at 26.3% .

In other words: All of your winning trades are taxed at 26.3% - and you are allowed to deduct a total of 2,630.00 € instead of all of your losing trades/legs.

This makes futures, options and cfd trading impossible.

This applies naturally only to individual persons, not legal entities.
More...

Link(s)??
 
hhahahaah Germany ... with France and Scandinavia they are biggest fans of socialism :) Money for financing life of "poor refuges" and all ppl who don't want to put effort need to be taken from someone... preferably from people who have devoted time and money to development and want to break above average.
 
Hittfeld said:
(..to diminish speculation..)
...
This applies naturally only to individual persons, not legal entities.
More...


a) Any news sources/links related to this?

b) Not sure how forcing traders to speculate professionally would diminish speculation. So maybe the goal is to generate tax revenues? (which obviously won’t work when people stop trading)

c) Can those politicians be sued for deception and defrauding tax payers? The way it was done looks like it was purposely hidden from tax payers, which could meet the definition of fraud.
 
To create a legal entity, such as a LLC, in Germany is a no brainer and costs almost nothing. Trading profits are taxfree and only 5% are added to taxable income, making the actual tax about 1.5%(!).
While losses can be offset against profits they cannot be carried forward. So if your losses exceed your gains for a given tax year youre f*cked.
 
guru said:
a) Any news sources/links related to this?

b) Not sure how forcing traders to speculate professionally would diminish speculation. So maybe the goal is to generate tax revenues? (which obviously won’t work when people stop trading)

c) Can those politicians be sued for deception and defrauding tax payers? The way it was done looks like it was purposely hidden from tax payers, which could meet the definition of fraud.
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a.) Links are on youtube. Or in german WELT newspaper (behind paywall)-
b.) Yes to replace FTT, which was declined by other EU member states
c.) Unfortunately not - deception has been developed to a higher form of art by most politicians and especially female ones in Germany. This last sentence might bring me to jail according to new german legislation.
 
crabshooter said:
To create a legal entity, such as a LLC, in Germany is a no brainer and costs almost nothing. Trading profits are taxfree and only 5% are added to taxable income, making the actual tax about 1.5%(!).
While losses can be offset against profits they cannot be carried forward. So if your losses exceed your gains for a given tax year youre f*cked.
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This is most interesting, especially as I have different figures from 2005 -2015:

Basic costs fo structure (running a GmbH vs. private accounts): Forming corporation: 3000 USD
Running corporation: Memberships, accounting etc 4000 USD p.a.
Trading related additional costs: Professional Trading Fees ( CME,CBOE, ICE ...) > 150 each PER month.

100 USD profit made by the firm will 50 USD net after taxes when paid out on your personal account (i.e. after all taxes of the corporation and your personal income tax (AbgeltungsSteuer)


Regards
 
crabshooter said:
To create a legal entity, such as a LLC, in Germany is a no brainer and costs almost nothing. Trading profits are taxfree and only 5% are added to taxable income, making the actual tax about 1.5%(!).
While losses can be offset against profits they cannot be carried forward. So if your losses exceed your gains for a given tax year youre f*…..
More...
%%
Good points;
I live in USa, but like a banker said '' a good CPA/certfied public accountant, will pay for himself/herself in a minute.'' Related to that plenty of US traders /inVestors figure JAN is a key measure in stock market=don't have losses...……………………………………………………………………..[when possible LOL]:D:D,:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
 
LOL

so correct me if i'm wrong but if you make 100k euros in gross profit by EOY by having 500k in wins and 400k in losses, then you'd have to pay (131,500 - 2630) = 128,870 euros in taxes?

so basically you'd end up owing money even after having a gross profit of 100k euros EOY? who the hell even comes up with stuff like this?

is this only for German stocks/derivatives or does this still apply if you're a German trading derivatives on non-German exchanges like the CME?
 
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