George W. Bush will go down in history as America's worst environmental president.

Hannity is an asshole, but he entertains the dummies, so he's there for now. He won't even be a footnote in 10 years.

Maybe Kennedy had 6 people in that limousine? In which case it could be regarded as a relatively environmentally sound choice. Symbolically, it's bad, because Hannity's crowd is the uneducated rabble.

Let the Kennedys die off (politically) - who cares?

Congress made a big error in not mandating increasing mpg for automakers' fleets.

We see all the conservative mouthpieces have all the same flaws and bad habits as the rest of us, but they play a different tune for the public.

One's political life and public persona are a world apart from one's personal life. Make's me question what true leadership is really all about.
 
Quote from dgabriel:

Hannity is an asshole, but he entertains the dummies, so he's there for now. He won't even be a footnote in 10 years.

Maybe Kennedy had 6 people in that limousine? In which case it could be regarded as a relatively environmentally sound choice. Symbolically, it's bad, because Hannity's crowd is the uneducated rabble.

Let the Kennedys die off (politically) - who cares?

Congress made a big error in not mandating increasing mpg for automakers' fleets.

We see all the conservative mouthpieces have all the same flaws and bad habits as the rest of us, but they play a different tune for the public.

One's political life and public persona are a world apart from one's personal life. Make's me question what true leadership is really all about.
More...

I was watching Hannity and Colmes the other night, and Bob Dole was the guest.

Dole said something that I think illustrates the decay in the political talking head/audience spectrum these days perfectly.

Hannity asked Dole about debating Clinton, and Dole said it was fun.

Dole said "Even when I ran against Clinton, I never thought of him as the enemy, but rather as my opponent."

That is what gives Dole the class he has, that he understands that political diversity of opinion is not a war, but a process among fellow Americans.

These modern day hate mongers feed the sense of the opposing party as a group of people to be hated on an ideological basis, rather than an individual or group of individuals that have different ideas on how to exercise power going forward.

Civility is not in the intellectual domain of Hannity, Rush, Coulter, etc.

However, I still cannot blame them as much as I place the blame on the audience who drinks that bile and regurgitates it up on message boards.

Hannity et. al practice demagoguery for profit and ratings....but the level of hatred spewed by some people in this forum toward politicians or other members who's ideals they don't agree is most primitive and reminiscent of the populace of regimes who were controlled and manipuated by leaders preaching hate and the need to blame others for all the ills of society.
 
Quote from ARogueTrader:




Civility is not in the intellectual domain of Hannity, Rush, Coulter, etc.

However, I still cannot blame them as much as I place the blame on the audience who drinks that bile and regurgitates it up on message boards.
More...

Do you realize how partisan you are? You left out Al Franken, Michael Moore and organizations like moveon.org. If you are going to be fair and balanced here, at least make an effort to name people from both sides. Look, I'm not attacking the left on the environment and I as well as many on this board are really getting sick of you posting article after article of attacks on Bush policies. If you want to gain some credibility here why don't you start raising some questions about policies on the left. See, unlike you, I am very critical of my party. I'm not a cheerleader, I have many problems with Bush and this administration from a political standpoint. You on the other hand seem to just be a puppet with no objective thinking abilities what so ever. I could list right now 1,000 things wrong with the democratic party and post 1,000 articles about their policies but you seem not to be able to recognize one of these problems. Instead, you post on ET every day some rhetoric from a left leaning liberal website or news organization. You realize that no one on this board will ever respect you as long as you keep doing that.

I have said this before and I will say this again, people in this country do not care about the environment. So if people don't care about it, how do you expect politicians to care? The bottom line is that we have 300 million people here and if you look at the careless and reckless behavior of each of these 300 million people you could improve the environment overnight and I'm dead serious. Look at the cars we drive, the water we waste, the energy we waste, it goes on and on. The bottom line is that each individual can make a difference if he or she wants to. The problem is they don't. And you know what? As a republican, I don't have a problem with that. Because I rather decide how to live my life rather then have a government create policies and force me to live my life some other way. This is why I am not a liberal. I don't want the government thinking for me and making decisions for me like what kind of car I can drive and what kind of house I should live in and where I should live. I believe in the freedom of choice. And with that choice comes something called responsibility. And we have to live with our decisions and face the consequences of our actions. If you want to improve the environment, start with yourself, then go to your friends and neighbors and tell them what they can do to improve it, and you know what? If enough people start caring, we can fix the environment ourselves without, oh and get ready for this, government intervention. I know, amazing thought huh?
 
Do you realize how partisan you are? You left out Al Franken, Michael Moore and organizations like moveon.org. If you are going to be fair and balanced here, at least make an effort to name people from both sides.

If the shoe I describes fits them, they wear it too. I began with saying I appreciate Dole (a republican) and the class he has, and hold the position of statesman at this point in his life.


Look, I'm not attacking the left on the environment and I as well as many on this board are really getting sick of you posting article after article of attacks on Bush policies.

Who is forcing you to read my posts?

If you want to gain some credibility here why don't you start raising some questions about policies on the left.

I could not care less about credibility with the right or the left.

When people point out what I post is not factual that is something worth listening to. That people don't like the facts, what can be done? Ignore them, blame someone else for these facts...that is what I see happens most often.

If I use the war in Iraq as an example and state only fact, not opinions on the long term correctness of that war we could state facts of:

-Number of deaths to American soldiers, Iraqi soldiers, Iraqi citizens, etc.

-Cost of the war.

-Number of weapons of mass destruction found.

-Price of oil.

-Corporate profits of oil companies as a result of the war.

-Capture of Saddam and others.

-Mass graves.


etc. These are the facts, it is up to the spinners what they mean in the short and long run.

See, unlike you, I am very critical of my party.

I am registered independent, thus have no party to be critical of. The party in power right now are the republicans, and it is my focus and habit to point out what the party in power is doing.


I'm not a cheerleader, I have many problems with Bush and this administration from a political standpoint.

Good for you.

You on the other hand seem to just be a puppet with no objective thinking abilities what so ever.

That is your opinion, but nothing more than that. Your opinion is not objective, yet you are claiming to know if others are objective or subjective.

I could list right now 1,000 things wrong with the democratic party and post 1,000 articles about their policies but you seem not to be able to recognize one of these problems.

List them, and help to educate. What is wrong with that? If you have facts, let them be known.

Instead, you post on ET every day some rhetoric from a left leaning liberal website or news organization. You realize that no one on this board will ever respect you as long as you keep doing that.

The comments I recently posted regarding McCain's critical statements on spending are from a liberal leaning politician?

If quotes or facts are innacurate you are free to point that out.

No one on this board will ever respect me? That is surely a ridiculous black and white comment. And even if it were true, which it is not (I could produce the Private Messages to contradict your comments) I am not interested in the respect of anonymous posters.

I have said this before and I will say this again, people in this country do not care about the environment. So if people don't care about it, how do you expect politicians to care?

People didn't care about the dangers of smoking until activists kept hammering on the studies. Eventually the truth came out, and the cigarette companies were forced to admit their unethical behavior.

Americans can look at smoking now as bad, but still can't make the connection that pollution and proliferation of toxic chemicals being dumped into the environment will have negative consequences.

What is wrong with attempting to bring the truth to their attention?

The bottom line is that we have 300 million people here and if you look at the careless and reckless behavior of each of these 300 million people you could improve the environment overnight and I'm dead serious.

Agree.

Look at the cars we drive, the water we waste, the energy we waste, it goes on and on. The bottom line is that each individual can make a difference if he or she wants to.

True. They have to want to, they have to be sufficiently motivated, don't they? They need to be informed, don't they?

Morton Downey Jr., on his way out of this life became a spokesman for the danger of smoking. So too, Joe Eszterhas now speaks out against smoking. (Link to Eszterhas comments: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/731693/posts).

So, should we wait until we have more serious issues with health as a result of pollution, or should people speak about it now?

The problem is they don't. And you know what? As a republican, I don't have a problem with that. Because I rather decide how to live my life rather then have a government create policies and force me to live my life some other way. This is why I am not a liberal. I don't want the government thinking for me and making decisions for me like what kind of car I can drive and what kind of house I should live in and where I should live. I believe in the freedom of choice. And with that choice comes something called responsibility. And we have to live with our decisions and face the consequences of our actions. If you want to improve the environment, start with yourself, then go to your friends and neighbors and tell them what they can do to improve it, and you know what? If enough people start caring, we can fix the environment ourselves without, oh and get ready for this, government intervention. I know, amazing thought huh?

From a cost perspective, is an ouce of prevention cheaper than a pound of cure?
 
ARogueTrader,

Ok, let me be more specific with my problem with you. I have no problem with you posting information how WE can improve the environment as individuals. Let me give you an example, posting information about new fuel efficient cars, naming the oil companies that purchase oil from the middle east, and suggesting ways to conserve enegery and water. I implore you to post information regarding these matters. What I don't like you doing is bringing the government into this and blaming the government for OUR careless actions. Why are you always looking for government to solve OUR problems? I'm sure you must know by now that individuals can be far more effective in improving the world around us then the government. Why don't you step up and lead the change instead of pointing the finger at the gov't and telling them to fix it.

And one other thing. You say you are independent and I always get a big laugh out of this. I have a lot of friends that are independent, and none of them read that far left publications and websites that you do. The stuff that you read and post on here most democrats don't even read because it's too far to the left for even them. So stop pretending that your are in the middle when everything you read and post is coming from sources so far to the left that even michael moore is to the right of you. People are so-called independent read very neutral papers and websites. They don't listen to the Rush Limbaugh's the Sean Hannities, or the Ann Coulters and they don't read the Guardian, Motherjones, the BBC, Greg Palast, Al Franken and Michael Moore.
 
Ok, let me be more specific with my problem with you. I have no problem with you posting information how WE can improve the environment as individuals.

We The People....can be specific when we vote, we can be specific when we write our congressmen and let them know our opinion on the bills they pass, etc.

Let me give you an example, posting information about new fuel efficient cars, naming the oil companies that purchase oil from the middle east, and suggesting ways to conserve enegery and water. I implore you to post information regarding these matters. What I don't like you doing is bringing the government into this and blaming the government for OUR careless actions.

The government is the only power I know of that can regulate the behavior of multi-million dollar corporations.

The process begins with education of the people as to what is happening. Kennedy's letter outline some of the changes of government over the past nearly 3 years.

People can then take or leave that data as they please.

Why are you always looking for government to solve OUR problems? I'm sure you must know by now that individuals can be far more effective in improving the world around us then the government. Why don't you step up and lead the change instead of pointing the finger at the gov't and telling them to fix it.

Our government is a representative government designed to represent the will of the people when it comes to exercise of national policy.

Until we tell our leaders we don't like their behavior, especially with the enormous amounts of money spent on lobby groups to pass legislation in favor of business profits over environmental dangers, nothing will change.

And one other thing. You say you are independent and I always get a big laugh out of this.

Glad to amuse you.

I have a lot of friends that are independent, and none of them read that far left publications and websites that you do.

I suspect your freinds might read Rolling Stone Magazine (where the Kennedy letter if from) and I also suspect they read the Drudge Report (Drudge is a big supporter of Bush by the way.)

The stuff that you read and post on here most democrats don't even read because it's too far to the left for even them. So stop pretending that your are in the middle when everything you read and post is coming from sources so far to the left that even michael moore is to the right of you. People are so-called independent read very neutral papers and websites. They don't listen to the Rush Limbaugh's the Sean Hannities, or the Ann Coulters and they don't read the Guardian, Motherjones, the BBC, Greg Palast, Al Franken and Michael Moore.

List some neutral papers, please be my guest.

Michael Moore is to the right of me? Now you are really making no sense.
 
We The People....can be specific when we vote, we can be specific when we write our congressmen and let them know our opinion on the bills they pass, etc.

There you go again. I am asking for ways for YOU to solve these problems. Stop relying on other people. Yes, you can write to your congressman. Let me ask you something, have you done that? I would love for you to post the letter that you have sent your local congressman. I bet you have done nothing of the sort. You only talk about the problem and point fingers. However, you post that letter you sent and I will offer an apology.

The government is the only power I know of that can regulate the behavior of multi-million dollar corporations.

Man again, same shit. Why are you blaming corporations? Do you realize that maybe, and I mean maybe no more then 1% to 2% of the corporations, and I am talking about every corporation here even if they have 10 employees, probably contributes to the pollution problem. Maybe 2% of them. You you go off on the big bad evil corporations like it's their purpose written on their mission statement that they want to violate environmental laws. Let me tell you something. The 300 million people that live in this country do far more and I mean far more damage to the environment then all corporations combined. Yet you continue with these attacks that corporations are to blame and then when you are done blaming them, you blame the gov't for not attacking and going after the corporations. Why don't you talk to your neighbor that has the big f*cking Suburban parked in the driveway and two more SUV's in the garage. Oh, that's right, your too busy writing your local congressman, my bad.

Our government is a representative government designed to represent the will of the people when it comes to exercise of national policy.

This is too easy. I already told you what the will of the people is. Most people don't care about the environment. YOU DO! So you want politicians to represent just you and not the will of the other 300 million people that live in this country? Most tax paying americans care about their health, their families and their jobs, not the environment. Maybe that is why you are not getting any responses from all those letters that you are writing your congressmen. THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES!

Until we tell our leaders we don't like their behavior, especially with the enormous amounts of money spent on lobby groups to pass legislation in favor of business profits over environmental dangers, nothing will change.

WRONG! Nothing will change until people like YOU do something about it. Fine GE pollutes the environment, stop buying products made by GE. Pepsi pollutes the environment, fine don't drink Pepsi. Oh and in case you don't think this works, look at what we did to France. We stopped buying French wines and we stop traveling to France and they took a BIG hit. That hit them really hard. Boycotting does work. Americans stepped up in unison and said f*ck you France. And it cost them billions of dollars. So it does work.

I suspect your friends might read Rolling Stone Magazine (where the Kennedy letter if from) and I also suspect they read the Drudge Report (Drudge is a big supporter of Bush by the way.)

Just so you know, Matt Drudge maybe conservative, but his website is merely a compilation of articles posted from every newspaper in the country. In fact 90% of the content on his website comes from LIBERAL papers!


List some neutral papers, please be my guest.

Michael Moore is to the right of me? Now you are really making no sense.

You see that is a tough problem since most newspapers are liberal! However, I have no problem with you posting articles from these liberal mainstream papers. Moveon.org is not mainstream neither is the Guardian and others of that ilk.
 
There you go again. I am asking for ways for YOU to solve these problems.

Educating people to a problem for which they are in denial of is a form of problem solving.

Stop relying on other people. Yes, you can write to your congressman. Let me ask you something, have you done that? I would love for you to post the letter that you have sent your local congressman. I bet you have done nothing of the sort. You only talk about the problem and point fingers. However, you post that letter you sent and I will offer an apology.

I have no need of an apology from you. Believe it or not, some people have nothing to prove to you.

You are once again trying to employ a Hannityism, by focus on personality over principles and issues.

I am not the issue, our environment is.

Man again, same shit. Why are you blaming corporations? Do you realize that maybe, and I mean maybe no more then 1% to 2% of the corporations, and I am talking about every corporation here even if they have 10 employees, probably contributes to the pollution problem. Maybe 2% of them. You you go off on the big bad evil corporations like it's their purpose written on their mission statement that they want to violate environmental laws. Let me tell you something.

Corporations are the largest offenders of pollution and use of toxic chemicals.

I have nothing against people doing all they can on a personal level to recycle, drive low emission cars, electric cars, solar energy, etc.

However, the Government could do much more to promote such efforts on the individual levels.

Rather than tax cuts on dividends, which did not for the greater part create jobs or stimulate the economy, tax breaks and tax credits could have been offered to those who invest in alternative energies, etc.

The 300 million people that live in this country do far more and I mean far more damage to the environment then all corporations combined. Yet you continue with these attacks that corporations are to blame and then when you are done blaming them, you blame the gov't for not attacking and going after the corporations.

The corporations are not blameless, are they?

Why don't you talk to your neighbor that has the big f*cking Suburban parked in the driveway and two more SUV's in the garage. Oh, that's right, your too busy writing your local congressman, my bad.

Use of sarcasm is a typical Hannityism.

How do you know I don't discuss these things with my neighbors? How do you even know the vehicles my neighbors drive? Very assumptive on your part.

This is too easy. I already told you what the will of the people is. Most people don't care about the environment. YOU DO! So you want politicians to represent just you and not the will of the other 300 million people that live in this country? Most tax paying americans care about their health, their families and their jobs, not the environment. Maybe that is why you are not getting any responses from all those letters that you are writing your congressmen. THERE ARE MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES!

The will of the people was to chain smoke until they learned of the dangers of smoking. The process begins with education of the dangers of what the corporations are doing in the area of pollution.

I am not against what you suggest, why are you so against fighting the problem on all fronts?

WRONG! Nothing will change until people like YOU do something about it. Fine GE pollutes the environment, stop buying products made by GE. Pepsi pollutes the environment, fine don't drink Pepsi. Oh and in case you don't think this works, look at what we did to France. We stopped buying French wines and we stop traveling to France and they took a BIG hit. That hit them really hard. Boycotting does work. Americans stepped up in unison and said f*ck you France. And it cost them billions of dollars. So it does work.

I am doing something about it. I am demonstrating in print how angry and irrational people can be when you discuss corporate pollution, thus demonstrating how people get emotional when you discuss governmental action that might influence their lifestyle.

Why have an E.P.A. unless they are free to do their job? We know the corporations are going to spend money to influence legislation in their favor to increase corporate profits. If this is not known, if the information Kennedy produced in his article is not made public, what chance does the environment have against corporate greed?

Just so you know, Matt Drudge maybe conservative, but his website is merely a compilation of articles posted from every newspaper in the country. In fact 90% of the content on his website comes from LIBERAL papers!

I know Matt's site, and his political preferences. Liberal papers, as you call them either print fact or fiction.

If there is fiction where there should be fact in my posts, please point it out. If you simply don't like the facts, or someone else's opinion, you are free to point that out too. Freedom of speech and expression is still a valid right of citizenship.
 
Quote from Pabst:

RFK Jr. is a partisan pinko idiot. I thought his shameless duplicity would be stilled after Sean Hannity busted him for owning multiple SUV's and his excessive reliance on private jets.

The freshwater fish advisory in Ct. and NY. was issued on June 21, 1999! As for the rest of the article, discriminating crap detectors will recognize RFK's point's for the lies that they are. Air pollution in Houston decreased during Bush's tenure as Governor.

Isn't the irony of this article obvious? RFK says essentially, don't import oil from the corrupt anti-American Middle East, don't develop additional fossil fuel resources in the U.S., and don't release crude cracking or coal emissions in the air. So in other words, perhaps we can energize the country by putting up those windmills off Hyannis. Oh no, I forgot, the windmills would spoil the view from the Kennedy compound.
More...

Jackass.

Actually, let me rewrite that lest we turn this thread into a barrage of personal attacks:

Try not to make such an ass out of yourself.
 
Educating people to a problem for which they are in denial of is a form of problem solving.

You are not educating anyone. you are blaming the government and big bad evil corporations. Why don't you educate us how WE can improve the environment.

I have no need of an apology from you. Believe it or not, some people have nothing to prove to you.

I can't believe that you have not taken any action. Are you telling me you are posting on here like this is the most important issue in the world and you haven't even taken the time to write your congressman. What are you trying to do here. Post on here hoping that I will write your congressmen for you? LOL. OK, man what else can I do for you?

You are once again trying to employ a Hannityism, by focus on personality over principles and issues.

Why do you continue to attack Sean Hannity? What purpose does this serve.


Corporations are the largest offenders of pollution and use of toxic chemicals.

Wrong! Individuals pollute the air with their cars far more then any corporation pollutes the water and land. And why don't you name me one such company that you feel is a bad offender of pollution. I'm sure you have many to choose from, just give me one.

However, the Government could do much more to promote such efforts on the individual levels.

Promote what? What do you want the government to do with my tax dollars. Why can't you just teach me make the environment better. It will be a lot cheaper and a lot more effective.

Rather than tax cuts on dividends, which did not for the greater part create jobs or stimulate the economy, tax breaks and tax credits could have been offered to those who invest in alternative energies, etc.

Great now you are attacking the dividend tax cut. That tax cut is putting a lot of money in the hands of our seniors who can use that money to pay for their prescription medication. And there is something called capitalism. As long as there is a profit incentive for companies to research and developed alternative energy sources, then that will be the driving force behind that, not government. And how do we do that. Well, the more people you tell to buy these fuel efficient cars, the more get sold. And the more that get sold, the more that get made. As the demand increases for this technology you will have a market of opportunity. Pretty simple huh?


The corporations are not blameless, are they?

Actually most are. Like I said before, 97% to 98% of all corporations are not polluting the environment. I wish I could say the same for individuals.

Use of sarcasm is a typical Hannityism.

Another attack on Sean Hannity. What is your hangup with this guy?

How do you know I don't discuss these things with my neighbors? How do you even know the vehicles my neighbors drive? Very assumptive on your part.

I'm speaking in general. I know way too many liberals driving gas guzzling SUVs and living in mansions that are 5 times bigger then they need who obviously are not aware of what they are doing to the environment. So you better get out there more.


The will of the people was to chain smoke until they learned of the dangers of smoking. The process begins with education of the dangers of what the corporations are doing in the area of pollution.

LOL. Oh my god, I am falling out of my chair here. Everyone I know smokes! Hell, sometimes I wonder if I am the only person in the world who doesn't smoke. LOL. I have been telling my friends for years about the dangers of smoking and they just laugh. People don't care about the dangers of smoking. Or the dangers of pot, coke, heroin, acid, alcohol, unsafe sex. You can warn people all you want about the dangers of this and that, ultimately it comes down to them taking responsibility for their life. In fact, one of my favorite movies, "The Insider" I thought that movie would be a wake up call to a lot of people that smoked. LOL. None of my friends even saw the movie. LOL. They didn't care to. That was their choice.

I am not against what you suggest, why are you so against fighting the problem on all fronts?

I am not. I am against you begging the government to save us. I don't want the government to intervene. I don't trust the government and I know you don't either. Why can't we solve the problem. Do you really think the pinheads on capital hill give a shit?


I am doing something about it. I am demonstrating in print how angry and irrational people can be when you discuss corporate pollution, thus demonstrating how people get emotional when you discuss governmental action that might influence their lifestyle.

You are doing nothing about it! Posting on ET, where there are 20,000 active traders who don't give a shit is not doing something about the problem. You won't even write your congressman. You are all talk and no action. Everyone likes to talk about problems and point them out to other people. Nobody likes to do anything about it.

Why have an E.P.A. unless they are free to do their job? We know the corporations are going to spend money to influence legislation in their favor to increase corporate profits. If this is not known, if the information Kennedy produced in his article is not made public, what chance does the environment have against corporate greed?

Again, corporate greed is not killing the environment! WE ARE! If you stop buying GE products or any company that is ruining the environment, they will change their action. Trust me. All the gov't can do is create more regulations that take even more freedoms away from us. And if they do this, these companies will simply pass the cost on to us so that my hamburger at mcdonalds will $5 and can of pepsi will cost $3 instead of 50 cents. Is that what you want? I don't!

I will reiterate my thesis once again. The difference between you and me is that I want people like you to explain to us what the dangers are of our actions to the environment and hopefully enough of us will care and respond and change our lifestyle. I do not want the government to get involved. I do not want the cost of goods and services to go up 10% to 30% just to pay for your government intervention. We need to find ways to help the economy, not hurt it. If the cost of a hamburger and can of pepsi is too much, I will simply stop buying them. Then people are going to get layed off and lose their jobs. With that they will lose their health insurance. Then parents can't afford to send their kids to college. Then we have a dumb country and a very unproductive one at that. Many people will lose their homes, their investments. With that crime will go up. Is this really what you want? Why not just take control and fix the problem at the local level starting with individuals and let's save everyone the hassle of going into a recession or a depression because our streams are dirty and too many trees are getting cut down.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top