George Fontanills

[TriPack]

Originally posted by camp
If you take the Optionetics course, you would learn how to manage your money and increase your ROI...it's your loss not to consider looking at George's organization. He's making money now in the Bear Market and so are alot of other students who follow him...don't knock it til you've tried it!!!!

Have you actually seen Fontanills putting on live trades, seen his (audited) account statements? Have you looked in the mirror lately? Have you seen the same for his students? If not then how can you say he and his students are making money? Show me the money.

Everything you have posted so far is an obvious infomercial. Anyone who has been around ET for a while could pick this out easily. You registered the same day you started posting to defend Fontanills and all your posts are made to that end.

On the one hand you make the obvious marketing pitch,

I'm very profitable by using his strategies and if you take the WHOLE seminar you would learn that he guarantees you will be successful or he gives you the money back.

Of course you'd love it if people took the whole seminar as you wouldn't have to give them their money back, right? While on the other hand you defend the fact that Fontanills has refused to refund money to some users because they didn't "qualify":

One more thing, the people who asked for refunds from Fontanils most likely didn't read the contract to understand the rules to qualify for a refund

So there is no risk, guaranteed profits but if he doesn't refund the money it's your own fault eh?

You're also a seller of statistical software?

As a seller of statistical software, I do know that you should always research the software directly from the manufacturer prior to purchasing.

And you wish people would buy the software directly from the manufacturer, and you also just happen to be an expert in the industry eh?

Also, just a piece of advice from one who knows the industry...always buy software directly from the manufacturer, if possible, then you don't have to worry about guarantee problems as you've experienced.

You wouldn't be trying to increase your profit margins by selling direct rather than through a resale operation would you George?

 

[jem]

First off as for george angell is concerned check out this link. Now again I read his books and they were interesting. But this is difficult to accept. http://www.cftc.gov/files/enf/02orders/enfangell-order.pdf


Hey, here is a question for Mr. Camp what is in the paid for part of the seminar that was not in the tapes or the free part of the presentation. What secrets were held back. Just one would be nice? If you can't give the details give us something to help us identify it as a unique "trade secret" quality.

Anyone care to state that there are trade secrets revealed by George.

If not my earlier posts stands. Good refresher stuff, pretty well put together. If you have more money than time perhaps it is worth it.

Finally, how has the world beating fund that George was running and publically hyping a few years ago doing. Is it still doing well?

 

[Maverick74]

Since I know a thing or two about options, I'll drop a dime on this conversation. First off, there is nothing new about options. OK? They haven't changed in the last 29 years. They are the same as when calls first started trading on the CBOE in 1973. There have been no new developements. I would run fast away from anyone that says they have something new to tell you about options that hasn't been written about the last 30 years.

Next thing, options cannot be learned at a seminar or in a classroom. You may learn how they can be put togethor but until you've made 5,000 to 10,000 trades you will not have even the foggiest clue as to why they respond and change value the way they do.

OK, last thing. I can assure you this, that the few people in this world that know how to take money out of options, do not talk. They do not talk. They do not sell their ideas on TV, they do not sell their ideas at seminars and they don't even tell their buddies at the bar. They keep their mouth shut and when people ask them how their options trading is coming along they answer with a simple, "It's going well."

 

[dottom]

An old post from an Optionetics student and day trading software purchaser:

Let me publicly apologize to Trrrader. I wrote to ask him to help me by telling me, another student of Optionetics, which strategies been so successful for him because I hadn't found any that worked like they were taught. I should not have involved him in my criticism of George Fontanills.

For my having mentioned that he cited a non-disclosure agreement as a reason not to talk to me and that his message, like his public post, sounded like an ad for Fontanills, he has called me a wimp, a whiner, and suggested I get a life. I truly thought he was a Fontanills employee spreading propaganda. I point out that I risk using my real name here, not a pseudonym.

Rather than call names, I have tried to give specifics about Mr.
Fontanills' conduct and products. For example, he sold me a $4000 day trading system he developed (The Market Insider) that never worked as advertised and ceased working altogether a month or so later. He led me into Optionetics through an intermediate step - a traders network - with the promise of ongoing updates and new systems. They never came. All support was discontinued. Later, at an Optionetics seminar in Chicago, he
stood in front of me and said, "I don't know a day trader who makes money." That's not what he said when he was selling the day trading system.

I personally asked George, by phone, to tell me what strategies were used in the trade examples in his earlier ads - the ones that couldn't lose. All I got was double talk and some mumbling about temporary mispricings during the day. In other words, you'd need live quotes and special software.

I went to his first seminar and he gave a trade and said do this, it works great. I did it, it didn't work, so I called him. He gave me an excuse. Next seminar, they announced that that part of the manual should be ignored.

So I give specific details from my experience and back it up with my name. Not everyone has had a similar experience with Fontanills. Fine. Let them speak up. Oh, but they are afraid someone will bother them or ask them for help. And I'm a wimp??

 

[dottom]

And another, from a former Fontanills customer:

If you prefer to chase seminar hucksters than you may have liked the thug faced Fontanillis. Doesn't his face gives away an entire story? At least wade cook smiles nicely. This guy boasts of driving Dodge Viper and having homes in various states and implies that they all are the result of his trading.

I took the highly priced fax service( I don't know why he never used email) and found out the hard way. Some trades were profitable and some were duds. He hid the duds and showed the profitable ones on his mailout to my friends. This was happening when I was losing money. I protested about the bad trades and these guys just avoided me. Thats pure manipulation of numbers. Also there was this trade support where this guy from his home in ohio would answered the phone. He would be tight lipped and answered as if he was a witness in a murder trial, saying very little. I knew this was bunch of baloney and I got these bunch of spammers out of my life.

Hey, once they get your address they will never stop sending you bunch of BS mailers telling you how to double your money in 3 months and so on and on. Baloney baloney baloney. Try something else.

 

[dottom]

From two customers of Fontanills/Angel day trading system only (not Optionetics course but sheds some light on "Fontanills the vendor"):

---- Begin Quote ----
>Those of us (and there are quite a few) that got ripped off by George
>with his Market Insiders Trading System find that they are compelled
>to warn others about Fontanills.
>
>If you were cheated by someone, would you not feel morally responsible
>to warn others when you see the same guy selling systems again?
>
>I know nothing about the Optionetics course, but I know alot about the
>man hawking it, and believe me, it is a tale of broken guarantees and
>a bucket load of frustration and aggravation.
>

I whole hardely agree. George took in $100 of thousands from the market insider course and software. The program was a disaster and many of us got burned when we could not get refunds as PROMISED. Before you fall in love with someone because of one experience - or the recomendations of those that liked him - take the time to listen to the "rest of the story" (apologies to Paul Harvey). If Optionetics is all that it is claimed - SO WHAT. The man selling it has proven to be not trustworthy to those that put their faith in him in the past. Let him defend him self to those that he is responsible to - and leave your uneducated opinions to your self when you deny others' personal experience. Maybe you can acknowedge that you don't know enough to attack those who know better about the man - and this is what has been expressed, not opinions about the most recent "do-dad" he is selling.
---- End Quote ----

 

[dottom]

And another former student, who also talks sound advice in general regarding the sales liteature:

Suddenly why all these generous posting in the Internet groups? to add presence and counter any genuine complaints) and that is to make water hold when it can't. The hype and lies will come out and we know the truth will be told by all and right here. For example his mailouts are something to look forward to as the mass marketing machine blows out fake claims.

It smells and reeks of putrid and blatant, dishonest advertisements the mailouts I receieved on May 2 1997. You wonder if these guys ever stop at mailing out these things. The marketing is unashamed, and no holds bar, in your-face, gutless hype.

George Fontanills has remodeled himself after the original master hype artist Wade Cook and has followed his footprints to the core. On page 5 in his "Most Successful Seminar... Can multiply your money.. with little risk " he says "From a rusty Ford to a 170 mph viper in just a few years time..." and on page 6 " I own property in Manhattan,Florida..and I can buy what I want" and on page 8 "I will teach you my best..nothing will be held back-guranteed " (for $1800 dollars I presume ) and than on page 9 he gives his "selected " trading records. What makes me wonder why this guy is telling us this on a constant basis.

It does not take a Rocket Scientist to figure out that at $1800 a pop [it is more expensive now than when this post made] and a $300 per month Fax service done on a mass basis can make George Fontanills a rich man, but trading alone would not have paid his bills.

Its a sublime message that if we pay him $1800 we will be like him in the stock market and in the game. Nothing can be far from the truth. Stock markets and options are the toughest places to earn a living and it is not such a subtle fact that you may loose money and part with your own tax paid savings forever. I have been through this and has climbed George's tree of promises to fall on my ass and regret having done that and being such an obstinate fool despite advice from friends and family. I lost money on his recommeded trades more than I made. When I look at his latest records on page 9 the Hotfax I see many loosing trades being omitted and wiped cleaned and only the selected trades being shown. This churns my stomach to the max and makes me sick. They will go to all extents to manipulate trade records to make us believe how great a trader he is. The fact is he is no better than anyone else and the Dodge Viper is a taunt to shell out $1800 to him. Ask him to show all his confirmation slips and all his records from Brokerage houses(which he should have no problem) than may be he can think of taunting. Until than he is a rip off to boot.

 

[dottom]

The above were some salient posts from misc.invest.options. There are lots more but I tried to filter comments that had more content then "it's a total ripoff" or "take your money and run"; and also included posts from actual customers .

Those were the ones available on Google. I've got lots more in my archives but it's a pain to dig through that old computer.

Google claims they have complete archive but so many of the good threads from 1990-1995 (when the trading vendor scene was in high gear with the rising popularity of charting software) is not archived on Google.

 

[StrayCat]

Thanks for the link showing the complaint against George Angel. I must admit that George Angel was also guilty of over inflated claims in his promotional literature. I didn't want to bash him because he has been out of the scene for quite some time now and I couldn't see any point in it.

George Fontanils rode George Angel's coat tails in the early nineties as Fontanils was an unknown and George Angel was somewhat of an authority to many people. That association led to the Market Insider Series of seminars and software.

When I called Angel down in Key West seeking a refund many years ago, George told me how he and Fontanils had split and he had no kind words about Fontanils. I didn't push the refund any further because I thought maybe Fontanils would honor their, "we'll keep working with you until you become a successful trader" guarantee.

I called Fontanils and told him that the Market Insider Series strategies that were taught at the seminar were losers and that I had back tested the strategies on TradeStaion and that I found they were overwhelming net losers. His argued that I must have programmed the strategies wrong. I assured George that was not the case, I could graphically verify that my programming was correctly buying and selling according to the Market Insider rules.

I asked George as a compromise (since he refused to refund any money as was promised), why not let me attend the Optionetics seminar as he had promised unlimited reattendance to the Market Insider seminars and they were no longer. He wouldn't do it. If he was a credible businessman, I believe he would have. It was certainly a reasonable compromise and it wouldn't have cost him hardly anything.

I continue to get his shit in the mail and now I just throw it out. I know he isn't credible. The only marketing ploy he hasn't used yet is depicting himself out on a yacht with beautiful big breasted, bikini-clad women hanging all over him. Maybe they just can't find any women that would want to get within 2 feet of him. He is an ugly bastard and with all his money, you would think he'd fix his teeth.

Why the CFTC or some other agency hasn't caught up with him is a mystery to me. He is certainly guilty of everything Angel was guilty of and more.

George Fontanils is con man and should have been shut down years ago. I bet that he has been responsible for a mind numbing amount of loses in the markets both that of his clients as well as his own (which is really his clients money collected from the seminars).

 

[StrayCat]

Dottom, thanks for posting all of the Fontanil customer complaints. You have done your fellow traders a good service. Keep up the good work.