Genesis vs IB

pandabear · Mar 30, 2008

I am looking to open a new account and wanted some feedback on Genesis or IB.

I will be primarily day trading on this account. System trading will be a big part of the daily trading process.

Need feedback on the following:

- Whose better at pricing?
- Execution speed.
- Better trading API?
- Available Intraday leverage?
- Better trading platform?
- Support during downtime.

Thanks

pipboy · Mar 30, 2008

I am not familiar with Genesis but I have several accounts at other futures houses. I have a small stock option account at IB. I must say they are awful for futures. Do not open with them. Their rates are attractive but the service will kill you and cost you money. The executions and the platform are also sub par.

I know IB is highly touted on this site but it is because these people do not know any better. I have been trading for over 10 years in electronic futures and I have had many accounts. I would trade options with IB but never futures again.

pipboy · Mar 30, 2008

there is no service at IB. Open an account and you will see. That is why their rates are so low

syswizard · Mar 30, 2008

Quote from pipboy:

there is no service at IB. Open an account and you will see. That is why their rates are so low

Unfortunately, and this is a BIG problem in the industry right now, Genesis is not much better.
Examples:
I found a bug in their Excel interface of their platform. Documented it, TOLD THEM HOW TO FIX IT, and STILL they would not fix it. They told me to use their API instead.
Now their API is not bad, but then I ran into another programmer who could not get STOP orders to work using the API. 3 weeks later, and the problem still has not been addressed, let alone fixed.

And you know what ?
The list goes on:
ESignal's API stinks.
Tradestation, although powerful, has data feed problems....rendering all of that powerful programming....useless.

It's just so crazy "out there" right now....unless you are using an INSTITUTIONAL API platform...and there are many. And wow, you'll have to pay-up to access those.

enochbenjamin · Mar 30, 2008

I hesitated to open an IB account because of the service horror stories I read on these very message boards, but in the past year, I must say that I have not had any problems. They are not perfect, but they do respond to all my inquiries.

They are not as bad as people make them out to be. If you just concentrate on your execution and don't blame others when you make mistakes, then you probably will not have any issues with IB.

MAnderson · Mar 30, 2008

Been using the Anvil platform for a while now and must say I can't complain at all.

The only downside is once in a while their Hoboken, NJ office experiences trouble with their servers which causes the platform to freeze, but I must say it is rarely. The only other thing the Anvil platform doesn't have the best charting, might want to go with a 3rd party software on that.

I rarely use charts for the type of scalp trading I do, I need split second executions with no delays and I have used many platforms before. (there is a reason why other platforms offer "sucker" rates) the average person overlooks this. Anvil does the trick for me.

bpcnabe · Mar 30, 2008

Quote from pandabear:

I am looking to open a new account and wanted some feedback on Genesis or IB.

I will be primarily day trading on this account. System trading will be a big part of the daily trading process.

Need feedback on the following:

- Whose better at pricing?

IB's prices are right there on their webpage. Genesis you must call and try to work a deal, but if you can, you could get a lower rate at volume breaks than what IB has. Also, when you negotiate the rate with Genesis, it is for the full amount of shares for the month - it is not a tiered commission structure like IB.

- Execution speed.

Negligible, but if you are into milliseconds, then Genesis gets the nod.

- Better trading API?

Hands down IB. There are so many people who use them that they have their own independent forums with guys/girls helping each other out (Yahoo is the dominant one). Genesis is a little more difficult. Documentation is not as prevalent.

- Available Intraday leverage?

As a retail client, which is why you were asking in the first place, leverage is the same Reg T as dictated by SEC - 4:1 intraday and 2:1 overnight.

- Better trading platform?

For equities, Genesis. It is all the platform does. IB TWS is designed to accommodate various tradable instruments, so they have to make it as general as possible. There are some 3rd party add-ons which you can use which makes using TWS very efficient, namely Button Trader and Bracket Trader.

- Support during downtime.

IB. They have a status page that any user can access which tells you of any problems they have throughout the trading day. Being there are so many users, if there is a problem, IB users let EVERYONE know there is a problem on the user's respective forum they post to. Here, if there is a problem, the community usually knows about it before they posts status updates on their webpage.

Thanks

People also complain about customer support at IB. IB has email support, trouble tickets, online chat, and telephone. Having seen behind the curtain, so to speak, at Genesis, customer service consists of whoever is near the phone when someone needs assistance

roadstar4 · Mar 30, 2008

No issues for me with IB.
and also customer service now is pretty good, they usually answer emails through their ticket system in 30 min or less.

cstfx · Mar 30, 2008

Quote from pipboy:

I am not familiar with Genesis but I have several accounts at other futures houses.

Genesis deals with equities only. They don't do futures.

OldTrader · Mar 30, 2008

Quote from pipboy:

I am not familiar with Genesis but I have several accounts at other futures houses. I have a small stock option account at IB. I must say they are awful for futures. Do not open with them. Their rates are attractive but the service will kill you and cost you money. The executions and the platform are also sub par.

I know IB is highly touted on this site but it is because these people do not know any better. I have been trading for over 10 years in electronic futures and I have had many accounts. I would trade options with IB but never futures again.

Ridiculous. I have been trading for nearly 40 years, I've been trading S&P futures since their beginning in 1982, and ES futures since very early on as well. I've had many accounts of various types. I think IB does a very good job on futures.

OldTrader