Games specialists play

Originally posted by Newatthis
What the NYSE offers that you can't get in the OTC market is that you can't get traded through if you already have strapped on a set and put a bid or offer in the system. The fairness of the rules, the level playing field outweighs the games they play. What about spoofing on the OTC? Games galore there... another thread I would think.
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With Supermontage coming soon,i don't think Nasdaq orders will be getting traded through without first taking out all available liquidity.I doubt they even occur nowadays,since Supersoes only trades at the inside price and proactive ECN's take out all available liquidity before trading to the next available price.
 
Originally posted by Vinny1


With Supermontage coming soon,i don't think Nasdaq orders will be getting traded through without first taking out all available liquidity.
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Wait a sec. You mean in stocks the price can 'trade through' skipping over price levels with valid bids and not filling them?
 
Puffy, you might find the answer to that in the article I linked to in the first post. Electronically routed orders are routinely abused by specialists. Even NX has loopholes.
 
Then you equity traders should look at the fair and transparent execution of the emini. A true thing of beauty.

Anyone who trades like a market maker in the emini does so because of skill (and a fast connection).
 
Originally posted by PuffyGums

Wait a sec. You mean in stocks the price can 'trade through' skipping over price levels with valid bids and not filling them?
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I think when Island orders are looking to remove liquidity,they will only trade with other Island orders.So if the Nasdaq market is 40.00 x 40.01,with no Island offers until 40.05 and 1000 shares offered there and i put in an order on Island to buy 1000 at 40.05,i'll get filled at 40.05.Best bet is if you have access to a proactive ECN like ARCA or REDI,use it,since these ECN's will take out all available liquidity from MM's and all ECN's before moving to the next price.In the above example,you might use ISLD(being that it's the cheapest ECN)if they had an offer at 40.01 or Supersoes if there was a MM with an offer at 40.01.So basically it depends on who is on the inside price at the moment you decide to buy or sell where you will route your order.
 
you can't really play specialist on the NYSE in real time, because he'll just penny you (unless it suits him). You can in larger time frames. But the specialist is less of an issue in larger time frames anyway.

I'll be the first to admit that, in March of 2000, I managed to overlook alot of things that I have no choice but to see nowadays.
 
i've traded against these guys for 4 1/2 yrs and they are just as crooked now as they were then....but as chas said previously now they can penny you to death. NX has it's drawbacks but when i want stock i get it!!!! and every time i pick off the sons of b**ch's i have to laugh. it doesn't surprise me at all to hear of a specialist firm printing money....they have a license to steal.

but hey, let's give them a break!!!! they've got yacht payments and private schools to pay for!!!! someone has to foot the bill.
 
The greatest advantage to the specialist system IMHO is that it has a true opening print. I don't like the fact that nasdaq doesn't have a true opening print...
 
In the OTC market you can preference an ECN and go around prices that are better for whatever reason you might have to do that. Even with Supermontage that is the case with lots over 10k I believe.

Charles,

I think in the extremes and in between. What is a fair and orderly market? You never answered.

I like the specialist system because of the centralization of orders and because when I am hooked (rarely : ) ) I know if I send a market order to him I will be OUT.
 
You CAN play specialist by placing scale orders so that he has no incentive to jump in front of one order. You can scale a 5000 lot by 500 shares every 3 cents for 30 cents.
 
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