Gaining Muscle and Losing Fat (2015)

lawrence-lugar · Dec 21, 2015

Baron said:
Do you still take Propecia or anything similar?

I take Propecia. been so for several years. -- i noticed an obvious drop in sex drive and semen when i first took it (and till this day too). i also take Rogaine. -- i actually use the generic versions of both, way cheaper.

Oh well, I still have a head full of hair -- it's all worth it, considering my dad got bald early.

-- so I'm just grateful it's all working and i'm not a baldy. (no offense to bald/balding people.)

eminiman414 · Dec 21, 2015

Frederick Foresight said:
I wasn't sufficiently clear with my question. My apologies. I realize that submaximal sets have some value on their own and presumable with some volume. What I wanted to home in on is whether submaximal sets have any meaningful incremental value if you subsequently do a maximal set of the same exercise immediately thereafter. If you do a maximal set (failure), do you think there is any strength or hypertrophy benefit to be attributable to the submaximal set(s) that preceded it?

According to Otto, my old professor, what would be the point of the submax set, other than to "warm up" or burn extra calories?

Frederick Foresight · Dec 21, 2015

eminiman414 said:
According to Otto, my old professor, what would be the point of the submax set, other than to "warm up" or burn extra calories?

Right, and I have reworked my routine accordingly. (As we've discussed earlier in this thread.) But the Internet rages with different opinions based on different research arriving at different conclusions. I side with your prof and his colleagues because the research seems unbiased (and the conclusions fit my preferences

). Since this is your field, is there any reason whatsoever for you to think there may be anything to the counterarguments? This is me just checking the lock twice. Or maybe three times.

eminiman414 · Dec 21, 2015

Frederick Foresight said:
Right, and I have reworked my routine accordingly. (As we've discussed earlier in this thread.) But the Internet rages with different opinions based on different research arriving at different conclusions. I side with your prof and his colleagues because the research seems unbiased (and the conclusions fit my preferences ). Since this is your field, is there any reason whatsoever for you to think there may be anything to the counterarguments? This is me just checking the lock twice. Or maybe three times.

for you, no, failure is perfectly fine. A competitive Olympic weightlifter then no I obviously would not recommend failure. It's really again about goals. For the general population that is typically "busy" and under time constraints failure is the most efficient way to train. If you're a competitive powerlifter than some of your training has to be submaximal moreso to "grease the groove" however ancillary exercises can be trained to failure. That's more like practicing a skill though, in terms of a competitive lifter.

Now with that said I don't train many people shooting for failure because they just can't get there. They stop, they start again, they complain blah blah blah, "oh it burns" lol. So it's difficult. If someone loves to train and I'm working with them (very rare) then I push them to failure. I train my uncle and I train him going to failure because he's willing to go to that point.

But from a purely scientific standpoint submax would just make sessions longer and burn a few extra calories however not much more than not drinking a glass of Coke. Hope I answered your question? Lol.

CaptainObvious · Dec 21, 2015

Let me ask you experts this question. I do a complete routine (say upper body and arms) of light weight warm up sets for every type lift I'm going to do that day. Then a mid range warm up for all different lifts again. Then I do my full lift to failure sets. It's been my experience as of late that if I do one type lift, warm up through failure and move on to the next one, by the time I get to the last one(s) I'm going to do I'm too tapped out to do damn near anything so the last couple of exercises don't amount to much. Thoughts?

eminiman414 · Dec 21, 2015

CaptainObvious said:
Let me ask you experts this question. I do a complete routine (say upper body and arms) of light weight warm up sets for every type lift I'm going to do that day. Then a mid range warm up for all different lifts again. Then I do my full lift to failure sets. It's been my experience as of late that if I do one type lift, warm up through failure and move on to the next one, by the time I get to the last one(s) I'm going to do I'm too tapped out to do damn near anything so the last couple of exercises don't amount to much. Thoughts?

Hard to say. What type of poundages are you using? Warming up for a 35# curl wouldn't be necessary especially if you've done something like Chinups before. If you're benching 405 yes you'll need to ramp those sets up

achilles28 · Dec 21, 2015

Baron said:
Do you still take Propecia or anything similar?

No, nothing. This only happens to a small percentage of men who take finesteride. I took it on and off roughly two years in my late twenties. That's it.

achilles28 · Dec 21, 2015

Frederick Foresight said:
Did you have your testosterone level checked before you began using finasteride to arrive at this conclusion?

No, but any person knows their body and whats normal for them. So the answer is obvious.

Boss302 · Dec 21, 2015

Frederick Foresight said:
Based on your previous post, I assume that you are at least in your 50s (as am I). I may have misunderstood, but are you saying you've been working out your whole life and are still making gains? Or were you implicitly referring to people who may have started working out later in life? I ask because, although I've worked out pretty much my whole life and take it fairly seriously, I'm not as strong as I was at my peak which I think I hit in my 30s and which ~seemed to have lasted well into my 40s.

Yes I am in my mid 50's and I should have been more clear. I was probably my strongest in my mid 30's as well and will never squat as heavy as I used to. My knees wouldn't handle it and I am not as fearless as I was back then. However I have focused more on deadlifts now than I used to and have noticed gains in my back (obviously) as well as my traps and hamstrings. I made some adjustments to my chest routine to save my shoulders. I eliminated the pec deck and barbell inclines and substituted with dumbbell inclines and decline press. My shoulders feel better and my bench has gone up and my chest has improved. I can't say I have improved continuously for 35 years as I have taken layoffs but not in quite a while as I can't recover from them anymore. Maybe I will hit the wall soon but I really do think I can be better in 3 months than I am today.

CaptainObvious · Dec 21, 2015

eminiman414 said:
Hard to say. What type of poundages are you using? Warming up for a 35# curl wouldn't be necessary especially if you've done something like Chinups before. If you're benching 405 yes you'll need to ramp those sets up

Poundage is relative, right? have to say that so I don't feel so pathetic and old.

I don't know what my max poundage would be, nor do I can to try. I'm just doing what I can handle and do a few reps with before total failure.
Bench I warm up with 125, 1 set of 10 reps. Next is a 160, 1 set of 10 reps. I finish with 200, 2 sets. One set of 8 reps and the next one I fail on 7. For me fail is defined as poor execution.
What I'm saying is that if I do all the bench sets up front, or any other exercise, and then move to the next exercise, do all the sets and so on, I can't do much by the time I'm into the last couple routines. If I do my warm ups with every routine, then mid range weight with every routine, and then go to max I can get much more out of it...by a long shot.