Gaining Muscle and Losing Fat (2015)

[Baron]

Only problem I see is that I would then be consuming a large part of my diet prior to going to bed (which is counter to my old way of thinking), but might be OK if I do most of the carbs and fat early in the window and just drink a post workout protein and just enough carb (glucose maybe for my post workout insulin spike). What do you think?

Throw that old thinking right out of the window. If you keep your eating within the 8-hour window and your overall calorie intake and macros are within normal range, you can consume those calories at any point during your feeding window. If you want to save most of your calories until right before bed and have an all-out gorge fest, then you're free to do that.

One study looked at this very topic and examined body composition and health throughout Ramadan fasting. People who fast during Ramadan can't eat from dawn until sunset, so to compensate for that restriction, they literally gorge on carbs and treats in the middle of the night to no ill effect. It was discovered that this meal pattern of regular nightly feasts actually caused the body fat percentage of participants to drop.

 

[Baron]

Also, do you add slow digesting proteins like casein into the last, or any part of your window, or do they run counter to the concept?

If you're going to do it, a nighttime intake of casein would be ideal but I haven't personally bothered with it myself.

 

[wjk]

Throw that old thinking right out of the window. If you keep your eating within the 8-hour window and your overall calorie intake and macros are within normal range, you can consume those calories at any point during your feeding window. If you want to save most of your calories until right before bed and have an all-out gorge fest, then you're free to do that.

One study looked at this very topic and examined body composition and health throughout Ramadan fasting. People who fast during Ramadan can't eat from dawn until sunset, so to compensate for that restriction, they literally gorge on carbs and treats in the middle of the night to no ill effect. It was discovered that this meal pattern of regular nightly feasts actually caused the body fat percentage of participants to drop.

Thx for your thoughts on this. I'm going to give it a shot. I'll post back in a few weeks or so on how I approached it and my results. I may ask a few more questions before then. As of this post, my weight is 207. I will begin tomorrow. My initial plan is to go late in the day.

 

[Baron]

I will begin tomorrow. My initial plan is to go late in the day.

This advice may prove useful to you. Consider easing into it gradually to minimize the hunger impact. Let's say for the sake of argument that my normal routine is eating breakfast at 8AM and then eating at various times for the remainder of the day until 10PM. If I was going to try intermittent fasting, what I would do (in retrospect) is tighten everything up by 30 minutes per day. So on day one, I wouldn't eat breakfast until 8:30AM instead of the usual 8AM. For some, even this 30 minute alteration to the daily routine might seem like a big deal, while others might be able to handle it with no problem. Either way, you continue to reel things back on the following day. So on day two, I would keep my breakfast time the same at 8:30AM, but I would go ahead and eat my last snack at 9:30PM instead of the usual 10PM. Rinse and repeat. You continue to tighten up your window each day either on the front end or the back end until you eventually get yourself to the narrow 8-hour feeding window you're trying to achieve.

 

[wjk]

This advice may prove useful to you. Consider easing into it gradually to minimize the hunger impact. Let's say for the sake of argument that my normal routine is eating breakfast at 8AM and then eating at various times for the remainder of the day until 10PM. If I was going to try intermittent fasting, what I would do (in retrospect) is tighten everything up by 30 minutes per day. So on day one, I wouldn't eat breakfast until 8:30AM instead of the usual 8AM. For some, even this 30 minute alteration to the daily routine might seem like a big deal, while others might be able to handle it with no problem. Either way, you continue to reel things back on the following day. So on day two, I would keep my breakfast time the same at 8:30AM, but I would go ahead and eat my last snack at 9:30PM instead of the usual 10PM. Rinse and repeat. You continue to tighten up your window each day either on the front end or the back end until you eventually get yourself to the narrow 8-hour feeding window you're trying to achieve.

I've decided that my initial window beginning today will be 2pm to 10pm, with my workout around 6pm. I do 1 hour cardio, 1.5 hours of weights. I may move cardio to morning. 2pm - 10pm is a very natural and easy to utilize time frame for me. I don't need to phase in. As previously indicated, I usually didn't eat solid food till around late afternoon anyway. I just need to ditch the morning shakes and pressed juices. I 'll move those to the window and new workout times. I believe the window will make it much easier for me to stay within my desired calorie range.

I do have another question, though. I've spent a good part of the day reading up on TEF by Martin Berkham. His article also dispels certain myths that I've been following at times regarding diet and training.

My question regards catabolism and if I understand what Martin is suggesting correctly, I don't need to worry about it. Even though my last meal or protein shake will be at 10pm, I will not lose muscle mass if I don't get up immediately the next morning and consume protein. Is this correct? Does that still apply if I get up and run 2 miles even though that first meal will still be 5 or 6 hours later?

By the way, he mentioned the study about Ramadan fasters in his article, too. This is the sight I've been looking at today: Ever hear of him?

http://www.leangains.com/2010/10/top-ten-fasting-myths-debunked.html

 

[Baron]

By the way, he mentioned the study about Ramadan fasters in his article, too. This is the sight I've been looking at today: Ever hear of him?

Yes. I like a lot of his writing. It's a shame he doesn't post very often any more.

Is this correct? Does that still apply if I get up and run 2 miles even though that first meal will still be 5 or 6 hours later?

You'd be much better off getting up and doing your weight training on an empty stomach versus doing all that cardio. I'm not a big cardio fan at all. Weight training on an empty stomach is the most efficient way to burn stored fat. The only problem is that you would need to rely on a combo of green tea and BCAAs to get you through until your first meal at 2PM, which sounds very difficult.

I prefer to work out just before my first meal so that when I'm done training, it's time to eat.

 

[wjk]

Did you learn about this diet from The Renegade Diet by Jason Ferruggia? Looks like a good read.

 

[wjk]

Yes. I like a lot of his writing. It's a shame he doesn't post very often any more.



You'd be much better off getting up and doing your weight training on an empty stomach versus doing all that cardio. I'm not a big cardio fan at all. Weight training on an empty stomach is the most efficient way to burn stored fat. The only problem is that you would need to rely on a combo of green tea and BCAAs to get you through until your first meal at 2PM, which sounds very difficult.

I prefer to work out just before my first meal so that when I'm done training, it's time to eat.

I appreciate all your advice. I'll let you know my results after a few weeks. It's almost 2pm my time. Time to eat!

Thanks again.

 

[Baron]

Did you learn about this diet from The Renegade Diet by Jason Ferruggia? Looks like a good read.

No. I'm note familiar with that book. I originally learned about intermittent fasting from Dr. John Berardi from Precision Nutrition.

 

[Frederick Foresight]

And now to stir the pot:

http://www.muscleforlife.com/does-intermittent-fasting-work/

http://no-baloney.com/2013/05/14/intermittent-fasting-skip-meals-lose-weight/

Also, a local scientist, Dr. Joe Schwarcz, whom I occasionally ask for health-related advice, has this to say about intermittent fasting:

"Intermittent fasting is not the answer...proper diet coupled with exercise is. I know it sounds simple...that's why it is hard to sell..people want magic."

His web site:

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/who-we-are/joeschwarcz

Just saying.