FYI -- Terrorist Attack

[Babak]

TM

I agree with you. I think if this war goes forward, the Iraqi army will fall so fast people's heads will spin.

What I want to know is this: where are all those 'experts' that were trotted in front of the camera predicting that the US attack on the Taliban would mean entering a quagmire resembling Vietnam?

Where are they? Can someone please force one in front of a camera and ask him why he was wrong? I would love to see that. Not just to hold these 'experts' accountable but also because I think the people will start to connect the dots. It is appaling how little thinking people actually do...and how short their memories are.

 

[ElCubano]

Quote from Babak:

TM

I agree with you. I think if this war goes forward, the Iraqi army will fall so fast people's heads will spin.

What I want to know is this: where are all those 'experts' that were trotted in front of the camera predicting that the US attack on the Taliban would mean entering a quagmire resembling Vietnam?

Where are they? Can someone please force one in front of a camera and ask him why he was wrong? I would love to see that. Not just to hold these 'experts' accountable but also because I think the people will start to connect the dots. It is appaling how little thinking people actually do...and how short their memories are.

Are you comparing the Taliban to the Iraqi army???

 

[TM_Direct]

B

I actually have a private bet going with another poster here....about the length of the war....While Hollywood, the left and France and germany have been screaming the worst case scenario.........I think alot of politicians are more fearful of a best case scenario: consider this:

What happens if the sorties start flying on Monday....after two weeks of bombing, and saddam is underground, we learn of a rogue General to the north ( like what happened in Afghanistan) and he starts fighting against Bahgdad?....And what happens if while we give air support, they go and take Saddam , have a parade in the street to celebrate his overthrow with U>S troops being needed? ,,adn then in the coming weeks the UN security forces strat moving in and setting up a government structure and seek out the weapons and find Anthrax and VX silos and more??????? If they find a Nuke program or worse?

I keep hearing about the worst case scenario, but if there is a best case situation.....the Dem's and France and germany are in a world of hurt.

 

[ElCubano]

Quote from TM_Direct:



You make some points but i have to be honest with you.....Your wrong....We don't have to actually send the troops in....Once communication is disrupted (like in the Gulf war of 91) the war is over.....His palaces will be targeted and he will have to go underground.....however, just like Afghanistan. when you "hide underground" you lose contact with the people and no longer control your provinces and or people/armies.......I hear all this urban war fare crap in 91 too.....yet by the time we started sending the actual troops in. our biggest problem was what to do with all the iraqi soldiers surrendering.....If you have troops who haven't heard from command, have not eaten in 30 days and who have bombs dropped around them non stop....they will flee. Some like Osama are urging them to bunker down in Baghdad.....How are you going to feed an army centrally located there plus the residents? His on generals and or/army will be dragging his corpse down main street in 30 days or less....right or wrong.,,,remember this: when you rule by an iron fist like he does, you have to keep that fist over the people's head....when he dissappears from TV and Radio ( because they will be knocked out immediately) the natives will get restless....Once the bridges are taken out, electricity is knocked out and food is scarce.....the dictator is in big trouble.

This is just an unrealistic worst case scenario....this may be exactly what happens, but I was refering to you saying it could be a worst case scenario...But hey, only time will tell. I just hope this madman doesnt start unleashing weapons all over the place before the War even begins or communications are knocked out. I honestly hope in my heart that if we do go to War it plays out exactly how you say it would.......that would be a best case scenario in my opinion....but i understand ur points...thank you for taking your time....

 

[TM_Direct]

Quote from ElCubano:



Are you comparing the Taliban to the Iraqi army???

Your right....the Taliban were much stronger in their resolve.....remember the "vaunted republic army"??????

Out Salvation Army can beat them....You have to remember also that the days of conventional ground wars are over.....iraq had a million man army in 91......what did they do ? they starved in the desert....so now people are afraid that they will bunker down in the city....how will they eat? where will they get water from when the smart bombs hit the water facilities and electric plant?

 

[tampa]

Quote from Babak:

TM

I agree with you. I think if this war goes forward, the Iraqi army will fall so fast people's heads will spin.

What I want to know is this: where are all those 'experts' that were trotted in front of the camera predicting that the US attack on the Taliban would mean entering a quagmire resembling Vietnam?

Where are they? Can someone please force one in front of a camera and ask him why he was wrong? I would love to see that. Not just to hold these 'experts' accountable but also because I think the people will start to connect the dots. It is appaling how little thinking people actually do...and how short their memories are.

A short memory? There are more troops in Afghanistan now, then during the so called war. There is no exit target The so called government we installed is very fragile, with the President surrounded by US forces, Again, the so called government "controls" only a small portion of the country, with little hope of taking back the rest without a fight.

If that's not being tied down, I don't know what is. Yes, the bad guys have been driven from power for now, but they are still there - just waiting. History has taught them that Afghanistan's "liberators" ALWAYS lose.

 

[Babak]

C'mon! You expect a whole bloody mess of a country like Afghanistan to turn around on a dime?!!?

This country has been in war for decades! What I was talking about was the 'experts' pontificating that the US would not succeed in driving the Taliban from power.

Rebuilding the country will take at least 25 years. At least!!

Just yesterday the Canadian government committed 2500 soldiers to go to Kabul. They are being very smart about it in my opinion.

They are following the age old strategy of castles and open land. In the old days castles were these impenetrable citadels which contained the force to control the land. And as such you needed a few scattered about here and there to control a whole region.

In the same way, they are creating 'castles' in Kabul, Kandahar, etc. Slowly and from them the power of peacekeepers and rebuilders will emenate. Slowly.

But give it time! Re-building a nation takes generations!! You need basic literacy...then you need basic infrastructure, then you need......etc.

Its not overnight! Look at Japan. It took decades for them to rebuild from the rubble (with the help of the US) and look at where they are!!

Be patient!

 

[Babak]

Quote from ElCubano:

Are you comparing the Taliban to the Iraqi army???

No! That would be the highest compliment to the Iraqis!!

There was a recent article about a defector who ran exausted into Turkey and told them of the conditions on the Iraqi side. They have no food, no clean water, no access to medicines or doctors. They have to share a thin blanket at night between two soldiers.......and on and on.

Why do you think he risked his life in going AWOL? He knew he was pretty much dead anyway.

The Iraqi army is made up of tired, hungry and cold men forced to fight. Because otherwise they will be tortured and killed and probably their family as well. The Republican Guard? Don't make me laugh!!

If you think that the Iraqis will fire off one single bullet you just don't get it!!

Remember how in the Persian Gulf they ran (RAN!!) to the US soldiers with their hands up? And that was 1991 when Iraq still had some semblence of economic stability and could feed its army.

Sheesh!! how short people's memories (?)

 

[TM_Direct]

In addition. i hate to say it ,,,but Arabs aren't exactly known for the fighting ability....maybe that's why they resort to terrorism?
there was that old joke about " what's the shortest book in the world?" ...The history of Arab War Victories...


If you really think about it....Israel , if left alone could probably take out the whole region...I mean, out side of France , who else could lose a war in 7 days or less?????

 

[TM_Direct]

Quote from tampa:



A short memory? There are more troops in Afghanistan now, then during the so called war. There is no exit target The so called government we installed is very fragile, with the President surrounded by US forces, Again, the so called government "controls" only a small portion of the country, with little hope of taking back the rest without a fight.

If that's not being tied down, I don't know what is. Yes, the bad guys have been driven from power for now, but they are still there - just waiting. History has taught them that Afghanistan's "liberators" ALWAYS lose.

Big difference though: We are not there to occupy...we are there to stabilize and yes a bad man may try to come in but you know what? When people get a taste of freedom it's hard to go back....and be oppressed again......COKE, MTV, SITCOMS and BUDWEISER will be the undoing of the entire middleeast ...look at JAPAN and there infatuation w/ Elvis!!