how come chinese traders are so powerful
FXCM King of the Micro Winner - 970% profit*
- Thread starter FXCM-PR
- Start date
Jason Rogers
ET Sponsor
Hi asiaprop,
You've never traded with FXCM yet you're making a lot of claims? Why not setup an account so you can see how our platform and execution actually works. I understand you're very happy with your current broker, and that is fine. But if you're going to be making claims about FXCM's prices and platform connection, better to speak from experience to back it up.
FXCM uses NDD execution for forex transactions and therefore cannot run prices as we like. Over 10 banks quote prices on our platform and the best bid/ask price from those banks is reflected on the platform. FXCM is compensated through a pip mark-up (essentially a commission) added onto the spread. The same pip mark-up amount is paid whether a trader is filled at the price they click on or slipped due to a lack of liquidity. This is how execution works on standard 10k accounts and some micro accounts.
FXCM Micro accounts are currently being transitioned from dealing desk execution to NDD execution. Even then, if you compared the micro account to the standard 10k account, you would find the micro price feed follows the standard 10k NDD feed very closely if not exactly.
Demo accounts use the same price feed as displayed on live accounts.
Knowing whether your broker has the ability to run their price feed as they like or can trade against you is important to know. The NFA thinks the same which is why every US based broker registered with the NFA is required to outline in the trading agreement in large bold all cap font how trades are executed. With FXCM's NDD execution, every trade is executed back to back with one of the world's premier banks or financial institutions, which compete to provide FXCM with bid and ask prices. The end result of your trade, profit or loss, does not have an impact on FXCM's bottom line since you're paying pip-mark ups. The active trader program is available if you prefer to pay a commission instead of the pip mark up.
Back to the King of the Micro winners, the winners strategies can vary greatly from actively scalping to swing trading. I would say last month's 1st place winner was hardly reckless trading 17 times during the month and the most profitable trades being held for days. Of course I prefer swing trading to scalping myself so I'm biased. The second place winner was much more active as far as trading activity, but the trading sizes were also smaller for the most part. Interesting comparison in trading styles.
-Jason
FXCM
Jason Rogers
ET Sponsor
If you're a non-US resident, then you can setup an account through FXCM UK to trade gold, silver, and stock indices. A complete list of the stock indices available can be found on the FXCM UK website in the CFD section.
-Jason
FXCM
Jason, thanks for your detailed feedback but I think I stick to my claim, here is why:
a) I dont need to try heroin to know that it has a highly addictive property. Yet I know its not something I want to get into. Replace the example with anything you heard bad things about, from people backing up their claims because they actually tried. I make claims about FXCM on the basis of what I heard (here on ET, on other boards, and current and former users). I also base my claims on the multiple complaints that your customers filed against your firm with your regulator. They are all publicly available, I guess you want to save the embarrassment to ask me to link to those here, correct? If not I am more than happy to do so.
b) I exactly said you moved to a Non-dealing desk model, so there is no contradiction in our comments. I claimed you still get kick backs from your liquidity providers because its now them who widen the spreads to levels that are unethical and unsound business practices during volatile market hours. Widening of spreads is very natural when volatility increases but the levels of widening in your firm and other "bucket shop brokers" is not justified whatsoever, especially when you compare with ECN networks and large accumulator platforms such as currenex or hotspot. ( I understand you offer access to those but I am talking about your standard retail platform). Additionally there are still complaints heard, voiced, and documented, that your platform freezes up at times when traders want to take advantage of fast moving markets or quick volatile moves. This is still the case and I guess retail guys could not care less whether it originates at your firm, your IT department, or your liquidity providers.
c) You made it apparently clear to a lot of clients that FXCM discourages traders from scalping markets. Several clients have been directly addressed to refrain from such activities or else their accounts would be suspended or closed. I dont agree with such approach to customer service. Either you run a pure NDD model and, as you claimed, you have zero interest nor care what strategies your clients run or you trade against or at the very least have a vested interest that your liquidity providers are not picked on and therefore have an adverse interest to the client. Chose one. Those cases, by the way, are also documented, free for anyone to google.
d) I think you are very misleading in your statement about your trading contest. Suggesting that someone runs a prudent risk by not trading too many times in a given time frame suggests you dont know much about trading or intentionally mislead potential clients or readers. It depends how much you are having AT RISK relative to your current capital at any given point in time. There is no way that you generate 500%+ return in this time frame without taking outrageous risk ESPECIALLY given this is not a high frequency trading strategy which picks up a few basis points here or there but on a consistent basis. Please at least keep this thing honest, I know it sounds enticing to some total idiots that they can score 500% returns but at least you also wanna be honest to them that they attempt to do so by losing all their capital with a VERY HIGH PROBABILITY.
I hope this makes my stance clearer, I think your firm is well aware of the many charges people brought against you, I dont think someone goes to the length to file a claim with regulators unless they think you grossly mistreated and cheated them.
But I understand your points, especially given you eat the bread this firm feeds you on a daily basis.
Enough said.
a) I dont need to try heroin to know that it has a highly addictive property. Yet I know its not something I want to get into. Replace the example with anything you heard bad things about, from people backing up their claims because they actually tried. I make claims about FXCM on the basis of what I heard (here on ET, on other boards, and current and former users). I also base my claims on the multiple complaints that your customers filed against your firm with your regulator. They are all publicly available, I guess you want to save the embarrassment to ask me to link to those here, correct? If not I am more than happy to do so.
b) I exactly said you moved to a Non-dealing desk model, so there is no contradiction in our comments. I claimed you still get kick backs from your liquidity providers because its now them who widen the spreads to levels that are unethical and unsound business practices during volatile market hours. Widening of spreads is very natural when volatility increases but the levels of widening in your firm and other "bucket shop brokers" is not justified whatsoever, especially when you compare with ECN networks and large accumulator platforms such as currenex or hotspot. ( I understand you offer access to those but I am talking about your standard retail platform). Additionally there are still complaints heard, voiced, and documented, that your platform freezes up at times when traders want to take advantage of fast moving markets or quick volatile moves. This is still the case and I guess retail guys could not care less whether it originates at your firm, your IT department, or your liquidity providers.
c) You made it apparently clear to a lot of clients that FXCM discourages traders from scalping markets. Several clients have been directly addressed to refrain from such activities or else their accounts would be suspended or closed. I dont agree with such approach to customer service. Either you run a pure NDD model and, as you claimed, you have zero interest nor care what strategies your clients run or you trade against or at the very least have a vested interest that your liquidity providers are not picked on and therefore have an adverse interest to the client. Chose one. Those cases, by the way, are also documented, free for anyone to google.
d) I think you are very misleading in your statement about your trading contest. Suggesting that someone runs a prudent risk by not trading too many times in a given time frame suggests you dont know much about trading or intentionally mislead potential clients or readers. It depends how much you are having AT RISK relative to your current capital at any given point in time. There is no way that you generate 500%+ return in this time frame without taking outrageous risk ESPECIALLY given this is not a high frequency trading strategy which picks up a few basis points here or there but on a consistent basis. Please at least keep this thing honest, I know it sounds enticing to some total idiots that they can score 500% returns but at least you also wanna be honest to them that they attempt to do so by losing all their capital with a VERY HIGH PROBABILITY.
I hope this makes my stance clearer, I think your firm is well aware of the many charges people brought against you, I dont think someone goes to the length to file a claim with regulators unless they think you grossly mistreated and cheated them.
But I understand your points, especially given you eat the bread this firm feeds you on a daily basis.
Enough said.
Gcapman, lets be very honest to ourselves for a moment, I think we can agree the vast majority of people are not equipped with skills and enough desire and willingness to learn to make trading a long-term profitable endeavor, agreed? However its an entirely different story to hold those pathetic contests and to make newbies think they can score such returns AT PRUDENT RISK LEVELS. That is an outright lie. Please read what FXCM PRETENDS the winner described of his approach to trading. I want to bet its 100% fabricated and made up by FXCM. The sad truth is, and that is why those paper trading contests are completely worthless, that such returns could only be achieved by having taken on a ridiculous amount of risk. Period.
Offering trading applications and execution is one thing, offering some perks here or there is one (Vegas also gives away cheap or free meals). BUT, lying about the odds in this game and risk/reward ratios is unethical at the very least. Shutting down clients because they scalp markets is unethical to say the least, sporadically freezing trading platforms, especially of those traders who seem to be up versus the FXCM dealing desk is also unethical at the very least.
My question to you: Do you want to conduct business with an unethical broker who has done all the above in the past and now claims he runs a non-dealing desk model? I dont, but be my guest.
Offering trading applications and execution is one thing, offering some perks here or there is one (Vegas also gives away cheap or free meals). BUT, lying about the odds in this game and risk/reward ratios is unethical at the very least. Shutting down clients because they scalp markets is unethical to say the least, sporadically freezing trading platforms, especially of those traders who seem to be up versus the FXCM dealing desk is also unethical at the very least.
My question to you: Do you want to conduct business with an unethical broker who has done all the above in the past and now claims he runs a non-dealing desk model? I dont, but be my guest.
Asiaprop,
100% agreed.......99.99% of people who wish to be traders do not put in the grunt work and study and self-discipline improvement required to be successful. This is not a right to be a profitable trader, it is a privilege which requires years of study -- just like not everyone gets to become a leading brain surgeon....
As far as FXCM is concerned, I think that those complaints also come from traders who are *destined* to lose....so they make up all these stories....some might be true I don't know....
All I can say from my experience with FXCM their quotes are nearly identical to Dukascopy
I'm confident enough to trade with a crook......after all, not all their clients are losers and the ones that are actually able to make money, they route their orders to inter-banks.....
I will let you in on a not-so-well-known secret.........all brokers hunt for stops.....they inform market-makers of their clients stops so that they can hunt them down -- the market maker makes money and the broker gets more commission --- that is just the business we are dealing with...that is why only 00.01% of traders will be consistently profitable
I do not agree with your statement on hunting stops.
By now the markets have smartened up enough to ensure that large professional traders will not place stops on round numbers or other well known levels. Some brokers may still attempt to hunt stops but its not worth the risk anymore, what what I hear from guys who trade institutional fx. The only way to rig the game in favor of the broker dealer or market maker is to manipulate the price feed altogether, meaning you spike the feed for the split of second by an additional 50pips just to trigger all the stops of those small guys. Again, I agree, this does not make a difference whether you will be a winning or losing trader BUT it makes a huge p&l impact to those who had their stops triggered although it was away from the market. I generally dont think there is anything wrong with protective stops.
By now the markets have smartened up enough to ensure that large professional traders will not place stops on round numbers or other well known levels. Some brokers may still attempt to hunt stops but its not worth the risk anymore, what what I hear from guys who trade institutional fx. The only way to rig the game in favor of the broker dealer or market maker is to manipulate the price feed altogether, meaning you spike the feed for the split of second by an additional 50pips just to trigger all the stops of those small guys. Again, I agree, this does not make a difference whether you will be a winning or losing trader BUT it makes a huge p&l impact to those who had their stops triggered although it was away from the market. I generally dont think there is anything wrong with protective stops.
you cant. Simple as that!
They still trade against client just that its not them anymore but their liquidity providers, and FXCM profits from this through kick backs. Isnt it funny how now nobody can be held accountable anymore. If the platform goes down -> "we had an IT issue and are currently work on it", if the price feed is spiked by 30+ pips -> "this is what the market did, nothing we can do, the prices we get from our liquidity providers", when spreads widen to like 20-30 pips while EBS or Hotspot widens to 4-5 pips -> "again, its not us, its our liquidity providers and they set spreads at market standards"
LOL, you seriously wanna entrust your funds and execution to such outlet? I dont!!!
They still trade against client just that its not them anymore but their liquidity providers, and FXCM profits from this through kick backs. Isnt it funny how now nobody can be held accountable anymore. If the platform goes down -> "we had an IT issue and are currently work on it", if the price feed is spiked by 30+ pips -> "this is what the market did, nothing we can do, the prices we get from our liquidity providers", when spreads widen to like 20-30 pips while EBS or Hotspot widens to 4-5 pips -> "again, its not us, its our liquidity providers and they set spreads at market standards"
LOL, you seriously wanna entrust your funds and execution to such outlet? I dont!!!