FXCM Is Buying RefcoFX - Deal is Done - Funds are safe

Quote from Trader/God:

Jim,

I can almost see you frothing at the mouth when you type your paranoid posts. I hope that it won't push you over the edge when RefcoFX customers justifibly sing the praises of FXCM for bailing them out.

Mark my words, etch it in stone, the funds are safe. The customers WILL get their full funds back.

Unlike any other MM FXCM put themselves on the line to salvage what could have been a disaster for the industry. When the industry got into trouble they came to the rescue, no other firm can claim that. Who else would you trust?

Trader/God
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Well, I guess, if you can't trust God, who can you trust?

I don't mean to blaspheme, or anything, but I thought maybe I should mention that you didn't answer any of my questions or explain any of the contradictions arising from your assurances.

A RefcoFX representative gave assurances somewhat similar to yours, but then those assurances were later proven, by events, to be totally false. I hope you won't think it paranoid of me to quote the chat, which has been posted at http://www2.oanda.com/cgi-bin/msgboard/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=004799;p=10
posted October 23, 2005 05:11 PM Profile for mainet Edit/Delete Post Reply With Quote
I am probably one of the few left who still has (in addition to Oanda) a RefcoFX account and didn't manage to withdraw money from it.

The last "life chat" I had with one of their representatives was on Friday the 14th and went like this:

======================

FX!2: Welcome to RefcoFX's Live Chat feature. You are now chatting with a RefcoFX representative. How can I help you?

You:: Hi there, I have a question: I have been reading some news about possible financial investigation for Refco. I would like to know what happens to the money in my account in the worst case scenario (some news source even take into possibility the chance of bankruptcy).

FX!2: Very good question
FX!2: I will explain:
FX!2: First and foremost, RefcoFX is not affected by the recent news from the Refco Group
FX!2: RefcoFX operates independently from the Refco Group or any of its other subsidiaries
FX!2: We maintain separate books, accounts and clients
FX!2: and we are in no way suffering a liquidity issue
FX!2: Our clients continue to fund, withdraw and trade their accounts as usual
FX!2: That said,
FX!2: Even if Refco were to experience financial difficulties, they would have no claim on RefcoFX assets or RefcoFX client funds
FX!2: Your funds held at RefcoFX are completely safe
FX!2: RefcoFX holds all client funds in a Bank of America account that are kept separate from RefcoFX's operational funds. Because of our size, reputation, and financial standards, clients can feel confident about the safety of their funds.
FX!2: Furthermore,
FX!2: even if RefcoFX were experiencing difficulrty, your funds would continue to be safe,
FX!2: as we are not able to use any client funds (which are held in a separate account) for operational or legal expenses
FX!2: And,
FX!2: even in a worst case scenario,
FX!2: if the Refco Group were to declare bankruptcy or go out of business,
FX!2: we have a clause that we developed in accordance with FXCM (a strategic partner)

You:: Thanks. Can you explain a bit more (if it's possible in few sentence) what it means to be part of a the same group when there seems to be no financial link whatsoever?

FX!2: that states that, if Refco Group were to go out of business, all RefcoFX client funds would be immediately transferred to a secure and separate account at FXCM
FX!2: The Refco Group is a very large conglomerate, with busiensses and operations around the world
FX!2: For reasons exactly like the one currently transpiring, these division are operated individually
FX!2: and all finances are kept separate

You:: ok, so let's see... in the very worst scenario, our money would be still kept untouched in an omnibus account at Bank of America (or maybe transfered to FXCM, or both). Is it correct? If so, how hard (in terms of time and/or paperwork) would it be to get it back in our actual pockets?

FX!2: You are correct.
FX!2: In a very worst case scenario, your funds would be sent to a separately held FXCM client account
FX!2: To retrieve those funds, you would simply need to complete the FXCM withdrawal form
FX!2: and the funds would be sent to you
FX!2: or, if you preferred, you could complete the FXCM Trade Agreement
FX!2: and continue trading there

You:: Thanks. Is all this information written somewhere in the customer agreement or the website or legal place for me to refer to?

FX!2: I believe that this is stated in the Trade Agreement
FX!2: that you completed upon opening your account with RefcoFX

You:: I will try to go trough my files and retrieve it. Is it also anywhere else on the website that you know of?

FX!2: I do not beieve it is stated on the website itself

[...]

You:: thanks, that's clear. As for the trading agreement, I am taking a quick look now. So far I cannot find the details you explained above, but I may have not looked carefully yet.

FX!2: Unfortunately I have not read this myself
FX!2: This is the policy explained to us by our Legal and Complaince department

======================

Three days later I receive the email from RefcoFX, that someone else posted above:

"RefcoFX Associates LLC (RefcoFX) is formally operating under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, as of October 17/18, 2005. [...]"

Now, since at least half of the representative's statements in the chat were false, I wonder how much I can believe the rest, like the automatic transfer to FXCM, or the segregated account, etcetera. Anybody else in my situation or am I the only **** one? Did any of you receive any additional information from RefcoFX?

Since someone asked, the platform still works and I seem to be able to place and close orders. However, I cannot access "my account" from their website.

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Quote from globalfxtrainer:

Do the same search using "RefcoFX", not FXCM and see what you get.

http://www.nfa.futures.org/basicnet/

Put RefcoFX under the the "Firm Name" field.

Still laughable?
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Well seeing how some people are gullible enough to actually believe it, its gone from laughable to pathetic.

You do realize that anyone can apply for that on the NFA site, and once they are alerted it will be taken down.

How any person with a hint of sanity and an IQ above room temperature can take this seriously is beyond my comprehension.

Trader/God
 
Quote from jimrockford:

Well, I guess, if you can't trust God, who can you trust?

I don't mean to blaspheme, or anything, but I thought maybe I should mention that you didn't answer any of my questions or explain any of the contradictions arising from your assurances.

A RefcoFX representative gave assurances somewhat similar to yours, but then those assurances were later proven, by events, to be totally false. I hope you won't think it paranoid of me to quote the chat, which has been posted at http://www2.oanda.com/cgi-bin/msgboard/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=004799;p=10
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So the chatter says that the funds are safe (that is true) and they would go to FXCM if Refco went Bankrupt (that is also true).

Do you have any more evidence you can post to help me out?

Trader/God
 
Quote from jimrockford:

You owe me an apology, buddy. Get your facts straight. The NFA website shows exactly what I said it shows. I'm waiting for your apology.
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Learn to read so you don't ruthlessly embarrass yourself so publicly next time.

Here are my guarantees (100% track record):

1. RefcoFX clients get their funds back thanks to FXCM

2. Those are listing are more fake than Dan Rathers Bush memos, only a nitwit could think otherwise. (MUMBAI!! haha, Are you really this stupid, is anybody?)

Jimrockford time to retire that name its been embarrassed enough, have some pride.

Trader/God
 
Quote from Trader/God:

So the chatter says that the funds are safe (that is true) and they would go to FXCM if Refco went Bankrupt (that is also true).

Do you have any more evidence you can post to help me out?

Trader/God
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Sure, I'm always happy to help out the omniscient.

The RefcoFX rep promised that in the event of a RefcoFX bankruptcy, customer accounts would be immediately shifted to FXCM. This was obviously false, because it didn't happen immediately. Perhaps, in reading the chat, you didn't catch this? This rep's claim was obviously false, because it would require approval by the bankruptcy court. Why should we be absolutely certain that this promise will ever be kept, now that it has already been broken?

The RefcoFX rep promised that bankruptcy at other Refco entities could not in any way jeopardize RefcoFX. The rep asserted that everything about RefcoFX was separate; separate company, separate operations, separate books, separate accounts, separate, separate, separate. Perhaps, in reading the chat, you didn't catch this? This rep's claim, too, was obviously a lie, since RefcoFX has been included in Refco's bankruptcy, for what you vaguely describe as a procedural reason.

FXCM, up until the Refco collapse, consistently represented itself as a part of the Refco Group. I'm sure you will tell us that FXCM is separate, separate, separate. We can't really confirm that because the nature and extent of the FXCM relationship, with Refco, is a secret. Is it possible that FXCM is also in danger of bankruptcy, as a result of the Refco collapse? Could it be that FXCM's bid is a desperate attempt to avoid an FXCM bankruptcy triggered, in part, by loss of the business it processed on behalf of RefcoFX?

I'm not saying that RefcoFX account holders won't be made whole. I just don't understand how you can express so much certainty that this will occur.

I think that RefcoFX account holders should be screaming for blood and for aggressive and comprehensive and swift criminal prosecutions, and that appropriate criminal proceedings will increase the chances of holding individuals responsible for Refco's debts, so that the loot can be recovered. I think that your assurances are lulling them into a false sense of security, which prevents them from doing what is needed to protect their interests.
 
Quote from Trader/God:

Well seeing how some people are gullible enough to actually believe it, its gone from laughable to pathetic.

You do realize that anyone can apply for that on the NFA site, and once they are alerted it will be taken down.

How any person with a hint of sanity and an IQ above room temperature can take this seriously is beyond my comprehension.

Trader/God
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Oh, I'm sorry, I'm just a dumb old coot that believes that it's a tad more difficult than, "anyone can apply for that on the NFA site".

Here's the criteria the NFA requires for an IB (the same that is listed on the aforementioned RefcoFX application dated 11/8/05):


Introducing Broker (IB)
An IB is an individual or organization which solicits or accepts orders to buy or sell futures contracts or commodity options but does not accept money or other assets from customers to support such orders.

Registration is required unless:

You are registered as and acting in the capacity of an AP or
You are registered as an FCM or
You are registered as a CPO and only operate pools or
You are registered as a CTA and either solely manage accounts under powers of attorney or don't receive per-trade compensation.
An IB is required to file the following:

A completed online Form 7-R.

A completed online Form 8-R, fingerprint card and fee of $85 for each individual principal. Fingerprint card and fee are not required if such person is currently registered with the CFTC in any capacity or is listed as a principal of a current CFTC registrant.

Individual principals and branch office managers who are applying for registration as an associated person must satisfy all applicable filing requirements. Also, for each branch office manager proof of passage of the futures branch office manager examination (Series 30) or sponsorship by a broker-dealer and proof of having met the branch office manager requirements of either the New York Stock Exchange or the National Association of Securities Dealers, Inc.

A completed Form 1-FR-IB (Part A) or FOCUS Report (certified audit) or a completed Guarantee Agreement (Form 1-FR-IB Part B) from an FCM.

If applying as an Independent IB (Non-guaranteed), a statement describing the source of the current assets of the IB applicant combined with a representation that the applicant's capital has been contributed for the purpose of operating the business of an IB and will continue to be used for that purpose.

A non-refundable registration fee of $200.
If SEC-registered broker-dealers limit their futures-related activities to the sale of security futures products on contract markets or derivative transaction execution facilities, they can become an IB by filing a completed Notice Form 7-R.
 
Quote from Trader/God:

Learn to read so you don't ruthlessly embarrass yourself so publicly next time.

Here are my guarantees (100% track record):

1. RefcoFX clients get their funds back thanks to FXCM

2. Those are listing are more fake than Dan Rathers Bush memos, only a nitwit could think otherwise. (MUMBAI!! haha, Are you really this stupid, is anybody?)

Jimrockford time to retire that name its been embarrassed enough, have some pride.

Trader/God
More...

Are you the person who said Refco stock was a "screaming buy" AFTER the scandal broke out? I don't see how you can continue posting here or on moneytec under the same name. What a disgrace.
 
Quote from jimrockford:

Well, I guess, if you can't trust God, who can you trust?

I don't mean to blaspheme, or anything, but I thought maybe I should mention that you didn't answer any of my questions or explain any of the contradictions arising from your assurances.

A RefcoFX representative gave assurances somewhat similar to yours, but then those assurances were later proven, by events, to be totally false. I hope you won't think it paranoid of me to quote the chat, which has been posted at http://www2.oanda.com/cgi-bin/msgboard/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=004799;p=10
More...

I had a very similar dialog PRIOR to the bankruptcy filing. In it, the rep stated that RefcoFX was completely insulated from the events at the parent and there was nothing to worry about. This was the just of the chat.
 
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