Futures commissions at prop firms

Quote from WarEagle:

I still don't get the logic behind prop futures trading. There is already tremendous leverage in retail futures, and at much lower commissions (using the $8 trip example) and you don't have to split profits with anyone. If you have to put up $5k, why not just trade with a firm like IB? Perhaps the prop firm is somehow willing to give you better than the exchange minimum margins (which are low enough to take out even the most well prepared trader). How long do you think your $5k will last trading more than 2 ES contracts? Maybe if they were willing to let you go into firm capital to cover losses, but I would bet that is not the case for a new trader, and if it were, the leash would be very short.

I just don't see any benefits here other than for someone wanting to gamble with their initial deposit hoping for some luck right out of the gate...and that is not trading.
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My understanding of proprietary futures trading seems very different to what is posted on these boards.

I was considering joining a group awhile back. You don't put up any money and are not liable for any losses. They start you off with a certain allocation, and you receive a 20% performance fee (or 2% management/15% performance), ie similar to a CTA. If you have a 5% drawdown you are finished.

These kinds of opportunities are only available to professional traders with very good real dollar track records.

If you are liable for any losses or have to deposit funds in an account, I can't see how it can be considered proprietary trading.
 
Quote from zentrader:



My understanding of proprietary futures trading seems very different to what is posted on these boards.

I was considering joining a group awhile back. You don't put up any money and are not liable for any losses. They start you off with a certain allocation, and you receive a 20% performance fee (or 2% management/15% performance), ie similar to a CTA. If you have a 5% drawdown you are finished.

These kinds of opportunities are only available to professional traders with very good real dollar track records.

If you are liable for any losses or have to deposit funds in an account, I can't see how it can be considered proprietary trading.
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That is my definition of prop too. That is why when I first posted I asked what the definition of prop was being used because people throw around offering leveraged capital and zero risk to the company as prop when it really seems to be a highly leveraged retail acct. Then if that is the case there is no point in the futures market because it is already highly leveraged. As far as the deal you quoted on real prop futures firms the terms of the deal vary depending on where you go as far as percentage payout, whether you get paid or not, desk fees and software fees to payback, golden handcuffs deal, and terms and length of non compete contracts.
 
$8 / rountrip is a ripoff no matter how you look at it. If you can come up with 10 grand, there are plenty of good retail deals out there for around 3-3.5 roundtrip minis with a software fee of 550-700 per month, or 4-4.5 roundtrip without a software fee using J-trader. Anything over those prices would be excessive for a beginning retail customer. There are plenty of those deals out there, just look up phone numbers to big firms in Chicago and call them. Any type of prop deal that charges you retail rates while taking a split of profits is excessive. Most prop deals I have heard of trade at or near exchange fees, which for CME is 2.32 per roundtrip. They do charge desk fees though. There are lots of deals out there, but most prop deals seem to be in Chicago on NY.
 
Like Tom said...it is prolly just a quick quote to give ya....i dont pay anywhere near that much tradng with them....and also there is no monthly fee for futures traders....just your data feed fee....execution platform is free... any other questions ...fell free to PM me....
Cheers
Joey


Quote from sakimonohito:

who has the best commissions at prop firms on futures? i was quoted 8 dollars per side by greentreetrading. does this seem kind of high? anyone have a better deal out there?

i realize their deal is a little different in that you don't have to have a license, but they are already charging a monthly fee to trade with them, the commission rate just seems cost prohibitive for a small trader.
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Quote from cornholetrading:



That is my definition of prop too. That is why when I first posted I asked what the definition of prop was being used because people throw around offering leveraged capital and zero risk to the company as prop when it really seems to be a highly leveraged retail acct. Then if that is the case there is no point in the futures market because it is already highly leveraged. As far as the deal you quoted on real prop futures firms the terms of the deal vary depending on where you go as far as percentage payout, whether you get paid or not, desk fees and software fees to payback, golden handcuffs deal, and terms and length of non compete contracts.
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I've thought the same thing on these boards for the last nine months. Wtf do they mean by a prop firm or haircut? However, I've worked for a MMs group who made decent money of their traders. It's all the same.
 
Let me clarify I trade with GreenTree Trading here is my deal,

1) No monthly fee, just data feed.

2) I initially had a $2,000.00 account

3) I got $6.95 R/t...and that will be going down very soon.

4) I use J-Trader and have the option of X-Trader too.

I am completely happy with the firm, my training, the risk management and management also. I could have gone out and got a smaller commission (i.e. Interactive Broker or Advanced Futures) but for me I looked at the job opportunities that GTT presented, like Tom mentioned the upcoming prop. futures group, or I may run my own office, or I can possibly form my own CPO later on...for me it was the total "package" that was why I went with GTT. I've have never been sorry with my decision yet......


Saki - RE> i was quoted 8 dollars per side by greentreetrading. does this seem kind of high? anyone have a better deal out there?

Hmmm I've been sitting and trading next to the head trader for over 2 mos. now .....I have "Never" heard him quote anyone anything close to this rate? ..that is a ridiculously high rate currently.....I have the retail , new guy whatever rate (it only drops from my rate) at 6.95 r/t and like I said that is dropping soon too.
I really don't know how you got quoted that rate?

J -
 
Quote from zentrader:



.

I was considering joining a group awhile back. You don't put up any money and are not liable for any losses. They start you off with a certain allocation, and you receive a 20% performance fee (or 2% management/15% performance), ie similar to a CTA. If you have a 5% drawdown you are finished.
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Finished with a 5% drawdown? That would finish every trader I've ever seen. Maybe you meant 50%

Jay
 
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