Bryan Roberts
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my bad....you are correct. i see the links for the photo's are still there but no photo's when you click. i have no idea why, i guess they are updating the site?????
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futures at Echotrade !
- Thread starter virgin
- Start date
Originally posted by dottom
With futures trading you can already get some pretty heavy leverage for intraday trading that I am curious how much additional leverage a firm would give you, or that you would want to take?
You can currently negotiate $1k per contract margin for emini ES and NQ with several brokers ($1500-2500 is standard). I rarely ever trade the max available margin with some exceptions (like taking long signal in one market and short signal in other correlated market) where my risk is less.
I totally understand benefits of additional capital for various scalping/very-short-term trading techniques in stocks, but the nature of futures margins eliminates this need.
I realize there are some other benefits of working for a firm, but I am curious about the additional $ leverage, which is the biggest benefit must firms advertise.
I have no idea what type of leverage will be allowed/given. The benefit for professional firms will be arbitrage being able to short the stocks without upticks using bullets to help bring prices in line. Not sure how much they will get out of line. I also have no idea how much liquidity they will have.
Robert Tharp
Originally posted by liltrdr
I'm interested in trading the Emini and this seems like the perfect way to do it. I wonder about the capital requirements though. I know the leverage in futures is very high so Echo will probably ask for more than the normal amount. That's what I would do anyway to manage the risk of intraday futures trading.
I thought I would dive in here for a second. I agree with having additional capital requirements for futures trading. We at Bright have offered futures trading for a long time (we started with our ex-futures floor traders), and found that most traders have not done too well (especially compared to equity trading)from off-floor. We have a higher capital amount requirement as well, and think that with risk involved, that it is justified.
(Don't get mad, Futures guys)...but...since there is no real "edge" that we have seen based on performance for several years (remember, we have been CME members for 2 decades) from off the trading floor (again, compared with equities trading)...we don't focus on the trading of emini's.
A few of us (myself included) trade the minis every so often, but very few are making any money at it. Perhaps this would be another good "Strategy Test" ???
As we all know, Globex ain't the pit. Its hard to teach an old trader new tricks. Thats especially true if they've had a degree of success using methods contrary to those needed in a new trading environment or with a different trading vehicle.Originally posted by Don Bright
I thought I would dive in here for a second. I agree with having additional capital requirements for futures trading. We at Bright have offered futures trading for a long time (we started with our ex-futures floor traders), and found that most traders have not done too well (especially compared to equity trading)from off-floor.
I was less than successful with intraday stock trading but have been doing rather well trading the Nasdaq e-mini. I am less successfull trading the S&P e-mini which I started with (but still profitable).A few of us (myself included) trade the minis every so often, but very few are making any money at it. Perhaps this would be another good "Strategy Test" ???
I am a discretionary trader, never hold overnight, trade frequently, always use stops (tighter than most), and sometimes reverse at my stop point (all in one order). Its been working great.
I do not have a 15-20 year history I can brag about but my point is that a good stock trader is not necessarily a good futures trader and vice versa.
I agree that often times stock traders and futures traders are two different breeds...even though many of the same principles apply, the tactics vary greatly.
Glad to see you're doing well, good luck!!
Glad to see you're doing well, good luck!!
Has anyone at these prop firms tried to 'pair trade' the Nasdaq e minis against the QQQ. I was looking at the chart overlays and there is a very good correlation (maybe too good for opportunties?) . Seems like a good 'niche' but need to find a prop firm that will allow trader to do method.
Anyone doing this reasonably well?
Thanks
Anyone doing this reasonably well?
Thanks
I did a lot of research on the NQ/QQQ and ES/SPY spreads. Like Tharp said, its very tight, and when it got out of line it reverted quickly. There was a big execution risk on the ETFs. I was looking at it back when the island volume began to pick up, thinking that having electronic execution on both sides would make it easier (It would have been nearly impossible with the AMEX specialists). You have to have very low costs (I used IB) and be really quick, along with good execution skills. Basically, its very difficult because you are playing with the big boys and they have been doing it (arbing the futures and cash in some form or another) for a long time. This is an area where I've wondered if being able to have a computer do your execution would give you enough "edge" to make it work, but I suppose there is always someone with a bigger, faster computer.
Kirk
Kirk
I would think that by now there must be firms out there running automated systems, set to take advantage of any arb opportunities in the futures vs the QQQ, and may explain why they track so closely now? Could a human pressing keys really compete in this area?