Fundamental value of Bitcoin

[Daal]

With virtual gold it took them 11 years, so bitcoin has 2-3 years left:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-gold#Criminal_prosecution

Here is the best part:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-Bullion

"After the arrest of Fayed, the US Attorney unsealed an indictment of e-Bullion and Goldfinger Coin & Bullion for failure to have a money transmitter license under the USA PATRIOT Act. Although the charges against the corporations were eventually dropped, the US Attorney's Office seized all of the assets of the Goldfinger companies, including the bullion backing e-Bullion.com from the Perth Mint and the Fayed's ranch in California. e-Bullion account holders have not been compensated by the U.S. Government for the confiscation of the bullion backing their accounts."

That is 24 million bucks taken away by the government...

e-gold is actually a terrible example because the money became worthless as soon as the government stepped in. with bitcoin that has not happened and plenty of people got arrested and sites got shutdown. its the decentralization vs centralization advantage. USDTether is closer to your point because its centralized and its one warrant away from being worthless . but BTC is completely different

 

[NeoTrader]

...single payer health care system, yet here we are in the USA. The government's interest can be very different than what the people want, pretty simple concept. But OK, do you want to use Uber as analogy? How about Lyft? Why and how Lyft is not as good as Uber (or couldn't be)? What if city governments outlaw Uber as they do in certain cities already? Not to mention driving for Uber sucks elephant dick...

But thanks, from now on I will use the Uber analogy, because it is perfect, and perfectly shows the problems of believing in just one crypto, like the others don't exist...

Here are the 6 top personal transportation companies:

https://www.zacks.com/stock/news/271886/who-are-ubers-biggest-competitors

I couldn't care less if it will be Uber or any other company. The point is that it has had this effect. The one I described and the reason for that is exactly what I described, it is not politically profitable to outlaw it and even in the ocasions that it was outlawed, you couldn't hold it. That was clear in Brazil, the government has put even police to track Uber, but it was useless, people kept using it, since it is virtually impossible to know who is simply giving a lift and who is driving an Uber car. The same with bitcoin, you can outlaw it all you want, if you can't enforce the law, people will simply continue to use it(that includes consumers and producers) and if some company provides a better service or a better cost/benefit, that is fine by me.
The same with Bitcoin, I don't give a fuck if it is bitcoin or any other descentralized cryptocurrency, the effect is the same.
Single payer health system is a perfect example of something easy to be enforced by lobbyists, exactly what I was talking about in a previous post. It's easy to sell to ignorant people because it is a "complex" idea, that seems nice, but fucks just about everybody.
The reason Uber was so succesful is because even a moron can easily see that he can pay far less and have a better service using it, compared to a cab, all he has to do is turn on his smartphone and call the car, the difference is clear. The same will be very clear with cryptos, and for the same reasons, if you don't have to sustain a shit load of useless bureaucrats, it's easy to provide a better service for a better price.
An the argument that "Driving Uber sucks elephant dick"... What does that have to do with anything? Nobody forces people to drive for Uber or any other app, that's their choice, for some people it is the only way out. That has no relationship to what is being discussed.

 

[Pekelo]

but BTC is completely different

OK, they outlaw BTC but there is a broker whose server is in the USA. (could happen, did happen already) Government shuts it down confiscating bitcoin. Good luck getting it back, just like the e-bullion customers. It was a murder case, the government didn't even had a case against the website. 24 million missing bucks later....

 

[Pekelo]

I couldn't care less if it will be Uber or any other company.

The same with Bitcoin, I don't give a fuck if it is bitcoin or any other descentralized cryptocurrency, the effect is the same.

I agree but most bitcoin owner DOES care if it is bitcoin or tomorrowcoin eventually. One of you argued that it is limited supply. If we are talking about cryptos general, it is UNLIMITED supply, specially if we don't give a fuck which one is it. So good luck expecting 4 digits valuation of unlimited supply of anything...

And I don't have a problem with their effects, the problem is a sky high evaluation and the volatility. No currency can be used practically as an exchange of value if its value yoyos 10% daily...

Speaking of shitloads of burocrates, what do you think miners are?

TX fee is what, currently 5%?

 

[Daal]

OK, they outlaw BTC but there is a broker whose server is in the USA. (could happen, did happen already) Government shuts it down confiscating bitcoin. Good luck getting it back, just like the e-bullion customers. It was a murder case, the government didn't even had a case against the website. 24 million missing bucks later....

They gov cant confiscate the bitcoin that people hold through cold storage or hardware wallets. not unless they get millions of warrants to enter millions of residences

 

[Pekelo]

They gov cant confiscate the bitcoin that people hold through cold storage or hardware wallets. not unless they get millions of warrants to enter millions of residences

We were talking about your broker account. And yes, if it is illegal to hold bitcoin the government can confiscate your computer or external drive if they think you have bitcoin on them. Read up on the police confiscating large amount of cash with no real legal back up...

It is so nice to dream, but knowing reality is better...

 

[Daal]

We were talking about your broker account. And yes, if it is illegal to hold bitcoin the government can confiscate your computer or external drive if they think you have bitcoin on them. Read up on the police confiscating large amount of cash with no real legal back up...

It is so nice to dream, but knowing reality is better...

they also tried to ban alcohol, how did that work out?

 

[O(1)]

They gov cant confiscate the bitcoin that people hold through cold storage or hardware wallets. not unless they get millions of warrants to enter millions of residences

IF.. and I don't even think we are close to it.. ifffff gov't wanted to shut it down

they wouldn't have to confiscate it. from a revenue perspective. .if they outlawed it. .then they couldn't tax it. So tax it to death instead?

edit: wait for people to convert it to currency then..

 

[Pekelo]

they also tried to ban alcohol, how did that work out?

Was it really your argument? Why don't you bring up killing people, after all that is also illegal, nevertheless, happens everyday. You can try to cry about it, cryptos are still vulnerable to government action, you like it or not.

A government ban would cause a serious drop in price and even more problematic drop in its UTILITY. Bitcoin was invented for usage, not for holding, after all.

Litecoin Forever!!!

 

[NeoTrader]

I agree but most bitcoin owner DOES care if it is bitcoin or tomorrowcoin eventually. One of you argued that it is limited supply. If we are talking about cryptos general, it is UNLIMITED supply, specially if we don't give a fuck which one is it. So good luck expecting 4 digits valuation of unlimited supply of anything...

And I don't have a problem with their effects, the problem is a sky high evaluation and the volatility. No currency can be used practically as an exchange of value if its value yoyos 10% daily...

Speaking of shitloads of burocrates, what do you think miners are?

TX fee is what, currently 5%?

It is limited by people's choice in which currencies they use. Your argument is like the argument for socialist idiots for minimum wage. They sustain it over the idea that if there is no minimum wage, the "capitalists" will lower the wages so much that people will work for nothing. That is just stupid, the only situation in which this occurs is when the number of workers is infinite, which is not and never will be.
The same can be said about cryptocurrencies, you can create as many as you want, but that doesn't mean that people will use all of them. They will prefer to use this or that, and that is what will hold the currencie's value.
The volatility problem is just a matter of time, the more the grows, the less volatile it becomes.
And miners are not bureaucrats, they compete with each other, and they can't force people to pay anything. That's the beauty of competition, if bitcoin miners charge too much, people can simply use other currencies. There is no competition among bureaucrats, they have a monopoly over the useless things they do and people are forced to go through these useless things by government, or, in other words, by other bureacrats.