Fu Piigs

Firstly, C6H, showing the German banks alone is misleading. Why don't you show the same ratios for the peripheral banks? It's not clear that they will be better or worse, but at least it would be a meaningful comparison. The point is that, while the German banks may be in bad shape, the German economy is extremely competitive on just about every measure you can think of.

The most relevant comparison of leverage that takes everything into account is in the attached graph. I would say it's pretty indisputable that Germany is in damn good shape, relative to others. I would completely agree with your point about the UK, though.
 

Attachments

I suppose that everybody agrees France and UK are not rightfully excluded from the list hence started to discuss whether Germany should be on it? lol...
 
Simply comparing numbers be it a countries debt or that of the banks as the prime measurement of a countries current state is dodgy at best really.

Take a look at the 10 most indebted and the 10 least indebted countries and tell me you would rather live in the latter.

I promise you you will not.


These kind of comparisons are fun to chatter about, and they are often launched with a bias towards the own economy but I would say individual cities can be to complex to catch in one discription let alone countries or entire continents!
 
Quote from Debaser82:

Simply comparing numbers be it a countries debt or that of the banks as the prime measurement of a countries current state is dodgy at best really.

Take a look at the 10 most indebted and the 10 least indebted countries and tell me you would rather live in the latter.

I promise you you will not.


These kind of comparisons are fun to chatter about, and they are often launched with a bias towards the own economy but I would say individual cities can be to complex to catch in one discription let alone countries or entire continents!
More...

What you're referring to is apples and oranges comparisons between countries that do not have a similar socio-economic structure (for example Russia, China, most of Africa, parts of south america) while comparing PIIGS to FR and UK is definitely not apples and oranges.

It's also not "just" debt-to-gdp. One can also consider social unrest as a factor, where France is definitely not lagging behind the rest! One could also take unemployment as a factor, also not that much of a gap. Or if you would like to look at budget deficits, France is definitely not behind Italy.

So if you put it that way, it seems like Germany is the only truely sound economy left in the whole world! :D

(I'm not German)
 
Quote from Debaser82:
Simply comparing numbers be it a countries debt or that of the banks as the prime measurement of a countries current state is dodgy at best really.

Take a look at the 10 most indebted and the 10 least indebted countries and tell me you would rather live in the latter.

I promise you you will not.


These kind of comparisons are fun to chatter about, and they are often launched with a bias towards the own economy but I would say individual cities can be to complex to catch in one discription let alone countries or entire continents!
More...
Huh? Smth is telling me that, right about now, I would actually rather live in, say, Germany than in, say, Greece, Ireland or Spain. For a whole variety of reasons, most of which are rather self-explanatory.
 
Once the dominoes begin to fall the interconnected reality of modern finance will assure that few will escape the collapse. At the heart of the problem is investor reluctance to put faith in fiat currencies. When -- not if -- the paper becomes an unreliable store of value it becomes nearly useless as the universal medium of exchanging goods and services. I believe we are dangerously close to an "Emperor Has No Clothes Moment".

It troubles me that imbeciles like Glen Beck are closer to reality (on this issue at least) than those that represent and lead us. I recommend LORDS OF FINANCE to anyone who wants to see how crazy it can get. It is an interesting history of the lead up to The Great Depression. I believe that the foundations of our worldwide financial system are much less stable today than in the late 1920's. I believe that chaos is inevitable. I think we are past the tipping point and into the charade that allows smoke and mirrors to keep up the illusion of stability for awhile.

I don't know how long awhile is but I would be surprised if it is as long as five years. We have eaten the seed corn and washed it down with the water that should have been saved to prime the pump. When the United States fall there is not another foundation to support the weight of such a Goliath.

Apres moi Le Deluge.
 
Quote from Martinghoul:

Huh? Smth is telling me that, right about now, I would actually rather live in, say, Germany than in, say, Greece, Ireland or Spain. For a whole variety of reasons, most of which are rather self-explanatory.
More...



If economic strength, transparent government or healthy public finances are key elements in deciding ones most desirable place to live Spain or Greece would never be favoured above say northern europe today but neither would they have been 10 years or 20 years ago so I fail to see how this crisis of late changed anything significantly there really.
 
Quote from Swan Noir:

Once the dominoes begin to fall the interconnected reality of modern finance will assure that few will escape the collapse. At the heart of the problem is investor reluctance to put faith in fiat currencies. When -- not if -- the paper becomes an unreliable store of value it becomes nearly useless as the universal medium of exchanging goods and services. I believe we are dangerously close to an "Emperor Has No Clothes Moment".

It troubles me that imbeciles like Glen Beck are closer to reality (on this issue at least) than those that represent and lead us. I recommend LORDS OF FINANCE to anyone who wants to see how crazy it can get. It is an interesting history of the lead up to The Great Depression. I believe that the foundations of our worldwide financial system are much less stable today than in the late 1920's. I believe that chaos is inevitable. I think we are past the tipping point and into the charade that allows smoke and mirrors to keep up the illusion of stability for awhile.

I don't know how long awhile is but I would be surprised if it is as long as five years. We have eaten the seed corn and washed it down with the water that should have been saved to prime the pump. When the United States fall there is not another foundation to support the weight of such a Goliath.

Apres moi Le Deluge.
More...

Beck is hardly an imbecile.
 
Is Europe in the same boat as the UK? I don't see how the Sterling can take such a big hit and Europe feel nothing. Logic would have said the Euro would have been taken to the woodshed. Maybe that's coming right now though.
 
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