From my own experience, I tend to agree that Frosty seems to need more than just a well funded account. The entries apparently need some work. Let me share how I improved my entries when I was at a similar stage as Frosty seems to be right now: Admit to yourself that some of your entries suck. You can probably find something those really bad entries have in common: For example, you initiate a position out of boredom, or you "hope" a new trend is about to start rather than fading the pullback. Whatever you come up with, observe yourself, and when that type of entry starts tempting you, don't take it, but imagine you had taken it. Then wait for the market to move against that entry you wanted to take, but didn't, all the while imagining you're actually in the position. When your (imaginary) pain becomes so bad that you are ready to exit your (imaginary) position with a market order, that's when you should try to actually enter for the kind of quick scalp you usually shoot for. But keep in mind, you will probably still be on the wrong side of the market, but you will exploit those very traders who frantically exit and don't care if they lose another couple of ticks by submitting a market order at a "really bad" time. Again, you should not expect this strategy to produce big winners, but if done correctly, it will give you an excellent probability for a small winner.
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Frosty's e-mini journal
- Thread starter frostengine
- Start date
Quote from myminitrading:
No wisdom is gained from success, wisdom comes from failure.
If we are talking about wisdom and not trading skills, I would think a person could gain wisdom from either side. But no amount of money is won or lost is going to buy you wisdom. This person needs skills, discipline and experience. Just my opinion...
4re
Quote from Arthropod:
From my own experience, I tend to agree that Frosty seems to need more than just a well funded account. The entries apparently need some work. Let me share how I improved my entries when I was at a similar stage as Frosty seems to be right now: Admit to yourself that some of your entries suck. You can probably find something those really bad entries have in common: For example, you initiate a position out of boredom, or you "hope" a new trend is about to start rather than fading the pullback. Whatever you come up with, observe yourself, and when that type of entry starts tempting you, don't take it, but imagine you had taken it. Then wait for the market to move against that entry you wanted to take, but didn't, all the while imagining you're actually in the position. When your (imaginary) pain becomes so bad that you are ready to exit your (imaginary) position with a market order, that's when you should try to actually enter for the kind of quick scalp you usually shoot for. But keep in mind, you will probably still be on the wrong side of the market, but you will exploit those very traders who frantically exit and don't care if they lose another couple of ticks by submitting a market order at a "really bad" time. Again, you should not expect this strategy to produce big winners, but if done correctly, it will give you an excellent probability for a small winner.
Now we are making some sense. I used a similiar approach except that I used the simulator feature on e-signal. I think the real key to this is that you try to feel the same pain on a loser as you would if you used real money.
BTW Frost have you ever thought of maybe choosing a stock to daytrade instead of a heavily margined future? Not as much glitz and glamour but it might help you develop the trading skills and mentality for eventually getting into futures. Just a suggestion.
4re
Frost since you have a $100 daily profit goal, I suggest you have a $100 max drawdown goal, and QUIT trading for the day if you lose $100 for the day. It seems you are overtrading and revenge trading. I did some of the very same things when I first started trading YM. This is how I fixed my problem. As far as cutting winners to soon, you suffer from the need to ring the register or the need to be right. If you can develop some discipline the way to fix this problem is to trade 2 contracts, which allows you to ring the register on 1, and set the stop at break even on the other to give a chance for the winner to run. How do you pick your entries ?
volente,
A lot of my entries lately have been all because I was either bored, thought the market moved too far too fast, thought a new trend was starting, or just plain revenge trading.
I do have some rather specific entry rules I use from time to time, but the MAJORITY of my trades lately have just been going off of feeling...... which IS NOT the way to go... If I do nothign else I have to STOP making trades just for the fun of it....
A lot of my entries lately have been all because I was either bored, thought the market moved too far too fast, thought a new trend was starting, or just plain revenge trading.
I do have some rather specific entry rules I use from time to time, but the MAJORITY of my trades lately have just been going off of feeling...... which IS NOT the way to go... If I do nothign else I have to STOP making trades just for the fun of it....
4re,
To be honest I WISH I could day trade a stock instead.. actually what I would like to do is daytrade the DIA, instead of YM...... but the government thinks they know best and force us to have 25k to daytrade stocks.... so here I am daytrading YM instead.... If given the choice with my current account balance I would deffinetly chose to daytrade stocks at this point since I would be able to handle moves against me better and would not feel the need to exit so quickly... but this is the reality I am in and will make the best of it.
To be honest I WISH I could day trade a stock instead.. actually what I would like to do is daytrade the DIA, instead of YM...... but the government thinks they know best and force us to have 25k to daytrade stocks.... so here I am daytrading YM instead.... If given the choice with my current account balance I would deffinetly chose to daytrade stocks at this point since I would be able to handle moves against me better and would not feel the need to exit so quickly... but this is the reality I am in and will make the best of it.
Quote from frostengine:
4re,
To be honest I WISH I could day trade a stock instead.. actually what I would like to do is daytrade the DIA, instead of YM...... but the government thinks they know best and force us to have 25k to daytrade stocks.... so here I am daytrading YM instead.... If given the choice with my current account balance I would deffinetly chose to daytrade stocks at this point since I would be able to handle moves against me better and would not feel the need to exit so quickly... but this is the reality I am in and will make the best of it.
Point taken...Just a question, do you have to day trade? You could do more of the Dan Zanger method where you trade only stocks but hold anywhere from 1 day to a couple of weeks. You can even use some margin giving you a little more buying power but a lot less margin than the emini. At least it would help you survive a little longer. And maybe build confidence as well as some discipline.
I will keep my mouth shut from here on out as I don't want to mess you up anymore.
GL,
4re
I too have been gone through the same "emotional" phase in my trading. Revenge trades, bored trades, etc. I assessed that the reason for the high drama was due to my trading with "scared money". If I lost what little I had, I was out of the game. I love trading too much to let that happen so I just stopped....and let it rest for a few months if necessary. Not a single trade for months.
The problem here is not the system, it's the head. I think you have to ignore the money after the risk management portion of the trading plan is fleshed out. Money must become an insignificant detail compared to executing a trading plan well.
If I execute according to plan, I still feel good about my trade, win or lose. Even good trades can be losers because this is a probabilities game and anything can happen.
I believe if you're trading an edge, and you take that edge, and only that edge, each time it's presented, you have a shot at being a consistent winner over time.
The problem here is not the system, it's the head. I think you have to ignore the money after the risk management portion of the trading plan is fleshed out. Money must become an insignificant detail compared to executing a trading plan well.
If I execute according to plan, I still feel good about my trade, win or lose. Even good trades can be losers because this is a probabilities game and anything can happen.
I believe if you're trading an edge, and you take that edge, and only that edge, each time it's presented, you have a shot at being a consistent winner over time.
Quote from riaamaan:
I too have been gone through the same "emotional" phase in my trading. Revenge trades, bored trades, etc. I assessed that the reason for the high drama was due to my trading with "scared money". If I lost what little I had, I was out of the game. I love trading too much to let that happen so I just stopped....and let it rest for a few months if necessary. Not a single trade for months.
The problem here is not the system, it's the head. I think you have to ignore the money after the risk management portion of the trading plan is fleshed out. Money must become an insignificant detail compared to executing a trading plan well.
If I execute according to plan, I still feel good about my trade, win or lose. Even good trades can be losers because this is a probabilities game and anything can happen.
I believe if you're trading an edge, and you take that edge, and only that edge, each time it's presented, you have a shot at being a consistent winner over time.
You are exactly right.
Have you read this book Frost ? If not I suggest you do. It helped me out greatly with my biggest nemisis in trading.
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&isbn=0132157578&itm=1