Front Running, Flash Orders, or Blackbox/Algorithmic Manipulation?
- Thread starter pacific7
- Start date
My prev post mistyped, should have said "NO" problem.
Im looking at ORCL now with size on NASDAQ and ARCA as well as others
If you say you cant take that out easily, I say you're full of shit.
What we have here are clowns that have slow quotes, trying to buy or sell in the middle of a huge index move.
Close that Muriel Seibert account and try IB
Im looking at ORCL now with size on NASDAQ and ARCA as well as others
If you say you cant take that out easily, I say you're full of shit.
What we have here are clowns that have slow quotes, trying to buy or sell in the middle of a huge index move.
Close that Muriel Seibert account and try IB
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Black Diamond, just a note;
Called Nadaq, they said all orders sent through them from our computers (at least mine with sterling) can show up as flash orders to others who purchase the flash information, unless your particular broker/dealer has them sent for you using a specifidc strategy. I am assuming that BATS and EDGE work the same way.
Good news is that this whole situation should be fixed on Sept 1st. Guess we all have to wait to see if it has any impact on our individual trading styles...
I can see where in theory some of this could be a problem in thin names, but I find it hard to believe that SPY MSFT INTC DELL etc are a problem for the pikers here.
Blocks trade all the time without the price moving at all, so it must all be tape painting just waiting for your huge order to show up, so they can drop the SPY 5 cents on ya. Of course it drops the 5 cents and recovers before any of the other home gamers even see it.
Only you as a home gamer victim know the mugging that has just transpired.
Blocks trade all the time without the price moving at all, so it must all be tape painting just waiting for your huge order to show up, so they can drop the SPY 5 cents on ya. Of course it drops the 5 cents and recovers before any of the other home gamers even see it.
Only you as a home gamer victim know the mugging that has just transpired.
Good thread. Far better than 99% of the shite scribbled on this site each and every day. I always find it interesting that the best posts are written by those who have an average posting rate of <200 per year. Could it be that these people are actually proper traders as opposed to the muppets that crank up 1000+ posts each year?
Anyway, Automate makes an excellent point here. Banning flash orders won't change anything. The tactics may change but the end result will be the same. Co-location and sub-millisecond response times are here to stay. As retail you cannot play this game so why bother trying. Think about the issue from the perspective of an HFT algo programmer. What criteria would you use as a trigger? Then have a think about designing your execution strategy so that it attempts not to set off these triggers.
For what it's worth, I primarily trade Globex instruments these days. On the whole I think the futures markets experience much less of these shenanigans and tomfoolery.
To clarify stock777, that wasn't meant as a dig at you personally. You are in the minority of high volume posters and have brought up an interesting topic here. I was refering to the plethora of posters who fill this site each and every day with reams of inconsequential ramblings and nonsense.
All I was trying to say is that it is possible to ride on the coattails of the HFT algos if you understand how they work.
algos have been missing in the small/mid cap space for almost a year now!!
Anyone doubting the frustration of the OP probably hasn't traded stocks recently. You see a stock bid 10.20 ask 10.23. You send it an order to buy 5000 shares @ 10.25. All of a sudden the new bid becomes 10.26, and you do not get a fill (not even 100 shares - the minimum ask size). If it happens 1% of the time, you would think it was coincidence - the quotes are stale or got cancelled- but when it happens 98% of the time, it is clear some legalized front-running is taking place. I used to think my broker was in collusion with market centers, but from all the discussion here and elsewhere it is clear it is the HFT and undue advantage given the big players. For most fairly liquid stocks (trading say $20million worth of shares a day), I have to enter my limit order (crossing the market), cancel and enter again several times before getting a complete fill.
I don't trade that block size as a rule, but I find it hard to believe this can be happening routinely.
I'd have to see an actual L2 snapshot of this and the context before I take these claims seriously.
So far there has not been one piece of hard evidence in the form of a screen shot or time and sales.
I watch t&s all the time on many stocks, and I do NOT see this bullshit happening. I see size displayed and taken.
if you claim to have seen little green men, the least you can do is provide pictures.,
I'd have to see an actual L2 snapshot of this and the context before I take these claims seriously.
So far there has not been one piece of hard evidence in the form of a screen shot or time and sales.
I watch t&s all the time on many stocks, and I do NOT see this bullshit happening. I see size displayed and taken.
if you claim to have seen little green men, the least you can do is provide pictures.,