Front Running, Flash Orders, or Blackbox/Algorithmic Manipulation?
- Thread starter pacific7
- Start date
i've seen a lot of this happen in futures market.
basically is that's a big paper player, they use fake order to flash on some important level.
what i mean by fake order is the one who put their order there is not really intend their order to get traded on that level.
probably they just want to drag down / up other market, or try their best to defend that level, or something like that.
it's very dangerous game coz u'll have a high possibility of getting filed anytime.
hope this help
basically is that's a big paper player, they use fake order to flash on some important level.
what i mean by fake order is the one who put their order there is not really intend their order to get traded on that level.
probably they just want to drag down / up other market, or try their best to defend that level, or something like that.
it's very dangerous game coz u'll have a high possibility of getting filed anytime.
hope this help
A football quarterback pretends to hand the ball to the fullback and the opposing team gets suckered as the QB then throws a TD pass downfield.
Placing ficticious orders or even changing ones mind and changing orders is regular stuff, day in and day out.
Where in the papers we all signed when opening accounts in a game of chance does it state the game is fair?
In life there will always be challenges, fair or unfair, either you deal with them or you must understand you will never be a winner because you will always feel disadvantaged.
In futures the game is on the up and up as long as what you trade goes through a clearing house-exchange. ETF's and all those bogus asset classes are ripe for manipulation simply because they are just trading toys with no interest what so ever with the legitimate price of the "actuals" relative to supply/demand.
There will always be players in any game of chance that skirt the rules, and the losers should not complain to Mommy.
Deception is alive and well and always will be.
Deal with it or stay on the porch when the BIG DOGS and on the prowl.
HOG OUT !!!!
PS: Some recognize the problem and are concerned. A lot of these new products are a result of the HOT MONEY floating around the world always looking for a new asset class to flood with HOT money created by the worlds central banks in efforts to avoid deflation. http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090730/REG/907309984
Placing ficticious orders or even changing ones mind and changing orders is regular stuff, day in and day out.
Where in the papers we all signed when opening accounts in a game of chance does it state the game is fair?
In life there will always be challenges, fair or unfair, either you deal with them or you must understand you will never be a winner because you will always feel disadvantaged.
In futures the game is on the up and up as long as what you trade goes through a clearing house-exchange. ETF's and all those bogus asset classes are ripe for manipulation simply because they are just trading toys with no interest what so ever with the legitimate price of the "actuals" relative to supply/demand.
There will always be players in any game of chance that skirt the rules, and the losers should not complain to Mommy.
Deception is alive and well and always will be.
Deal with it or stay on the porch when the BIG DOGS and on the prowl.
HOG OUT !!!!
PS: Some recognize the problem and are concerned. A lot of these new products are a result of the HOT MONEY floating around the world always looking for a new asset class to flood with HOT money created by the worlds central banks in efforts to avoid deflation. http://www.investmentnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090730/REG/907309984
Sorry, was just frustrated about what I was seeing happening in my trading and wanted real feedback. The first post I got back was from someone who wasn't interested in giving feedback, just throwing a cowardly "punch" from his/her laptop and I specicailly requested not to make these posts. I'm sort of new to Elite so won't happen again. I guess if you post something serious on here, no matter what, you are always going to get the 1-2 people who try and make a joke of it.
Spec, most of us would probably agree, never to send orders to the NYSE. Most of these orders end up in the electronic book, but some can still be held by specialist. Also, if you leave a limit order on the NYSE book for more than 5 min, there is a large fee relative to ECN, where you would actually receive a rebate for an order left on book. The difference is .0123 cents. ARCA specifically I have found to be the most liquid and offers the best rebates.
Actually, I think the NYSE now offers a .001 rebate too, so difference would be .01 charge after 5 min + .001 rebate + .0023 ARCA rebate. So difference would be .0113, if you want to get technical. These differences add up, why not save a penny when u can!
I agree... I've been sprayed all over the bid/ask on at least 5 ecns' - I'll watch the whole level disappear and the only shares left are mine... then the bid/ask fills right back up. Happens more on the same stock the specialist is front running piggyback orders. And Red's comment about the edge order loaded up... I've had the exact same thing happen as well... even with big size they fuck off... But he's right, there are ways around it.
I'm pretty sure the NYSE discontinued that charge for limit orders sitting in the book close to two years ago.
As far as getting those fills... well, gotta keep experiment. Can't always get what's there, but some routes are better in some situations than others. Experiment experiment experiment!