French Ambassador Attacks Trump

[wjk]

I see. You're content to wield pepper spray in an anticipated situation where you "believe" the perp is not really serious about killing you.... "bluffing and intimidating", as it were.... just hoping to lift your wallet and watch.

What if you're wrong about that. THEN what do you do?

Agree, pepper spray is likely effective against a mugger. But what about the Islamic radical wielding an AK-47 or a semi-auto hand gun? Don't you think you'd be better served to "shoot before he does", if you can?

The terror situation would require deadly force, period. I'm not disputing that. Don't equate what I'm inferring regarding street situations to terror. I'm not sure why you are trying to tie them together in response to my remarks. I'm well aware of the difference (and similarities ). I'm actually a little surprised by this conversation. LE make decisions all the time regarding which type of force to use (in non terror situations). They carry tasers and spray along side their firearms. Why shouldn't we?

Seriously, if a guy(s) approaching me when I'm armed or in my car, and he's going for his waistband, I'm not reaching for the spray. What if I'm wrong in a split second decision? Hopefully a situation doesn't occur where I don't have at least a few seconds to process an unfolding event. That's what situational awareness is all about. None the less, if I'm wrong, that's the chance I took.

OTOH, if I'm right by choosing non-lethal force, maybe I don't end up like Zimmerman...with a ruined life. #1, He placed himself in a position that he didn't need to, even after being told not to be by LE. #2. He didn't give himself the option of non lethal force (I'm not sure if he did or didn't, but if so, he chose lethal). The end result, his life is now over because of the decisions he made and the kid is dead. I'm not defending Martin, but just pointing out other ways it could have ended. Zimmerman had ample time to make his decisions prior to the actual confrontation.

What if you shoot a perp and he keeps coming? That's been known to happen. What if your gun jams after your first shot fails to achieve the desired result? What's your plan? Will you have time to draw a second gun? How good are you with your hands and do you stay in shape to maximize your fighting and shooting skills? I expect that you probably do.

"Shoot before he does, if you can" is the important remark regarding terror, and you can apply it to non-terror related mass murders if someone happens to be armed. It certainly applies to the street in many situations, as well. In any case, you will need to be positioned in such a way to carry that out, especially regarding your terror scenario, (unless you carry a rifle on your person).

Now, what if you shoot a perceived terrorist and it turns out you were wrong, and that it might have been fireworks going off for some reason unknown to you, and you saw someone you thought had a gun, but didn't? Have you given that thought.

Scat, we are both pro gun, but have different views on deployment. There are thousands of variables, and it would be nearly impossible to be prepared for all. I simply choose to give myself an extra option or two.

By the way, I don't wear a watch.

 

[Scataphagos]

Now, what if you shoot a perceived terrorist and it turns out you were wrong, and that it might have been fireworks going off for some reason unknown to you, and you saw someone you thought had a gun, but didn't? Have you given that thought.

Scat, we are both pro gun, but have different views on deployment. There are thousands of variables, and it would be nearly impossible to be prepared for all.

I'd like to think I wouldn't mistake some noise for some rag head wielding a gun. But if I saw a weapon brandished in my area and direction, I'd be thinking... "better get him before he gets me". But if all I have on me is pepper spray........

The only time I've considered I might actually have needed my carry weapon and had my hand upon it, turned out (thankfully) to be a non event. However pepper spray would have done me no good at all, regardless.

Nobody can be prepared for "every possibility"... whatever you're prepared for will determine your options and likely outcome. If your preparation is "strong enough", you've got a chance. If not, you don't... other than hoping the perp somehow manages to not kill you while he's killing everybody else.

 

[ETcallhome]

If you want to see what an armed society looks like check out Israel. They have been dealing with this for decades. Guns guns everywhere.

 

[globuli]

I'm an individual who is pro gun, but I agree with your assessment. A very well trained individual with a very high level of situational awareness would still have had to be in a location to respond effectively, and I'm curious, would a bullet strike actually detonate the vest? That said, if one attacker of three was taken out, there might still be less death. There are many situations in the US where armed individuals have stopped potential mass murders underway, though they weren't going up against trained terrorists (at least in the stories I reviewed), and in a few of the examples, the individuals that stopped the murders underway were actually off duty, armed LE...well trained with their weapons.

I am agnostic on guns. On the one hand, we Americans cherish personal freedoms. Most of us-myself included- would prefer to be able to opt to own a gun rather than have that choice denied us. On the other hand, there are so many knuckleheads, crackpots, and bad guys in America who misuse guns, and commit crimes of all sorts with guns. Exactly the kind of people you don't want possessing guns.

Disclosure: I don't own a gun. I don't hunt. I don't feel unsafe. If I felt I needed a gun, I would get one.