Free automated trading platform, for IB

Quote from frostengine:

Doesnt matter, this discussion is all for nothing I am sure.... Looks like the legal liabilities are going to kill this project. I am very unwilling to take this open source, and even if I did I am not sure that open source would protect me from the legal liabilities associated with if someone looses money and decides to come after the software makers.
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Do you know that for a fact?

Have you spoken with (free or hopefully cheap) legal counsel regarding this?

Or is your thinking based on the feedback from the thread?

If you're making a decision based on speaking with legal counsel, well then forget this project!, you don't need the hassel right now. Concetrate on getting together a wad of cash and trade your own methodologies with your bot - or a modified verision of it (this is the advice I've given you before). You are young, there is a high potential for ultimate success at this for you.

However, if you're making a decision based on the responses from this thread, you have to pursue the issues which were raised fully ... nothing comes without cost (unless you are very lucky) ... and nothing comes easy (see former statement).

Best Regards,

Jimmy Jam
 
Quote from Gonz:

So Jimmy, if u felt uncomfortable using it, then forget abt it... y r u discouraging Frost from sharing with us? :confused:
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Hi Gonz,

I'm glad I didn't flame you, as you are asking an honest and open question and I'm glad we can engage in intelligent dialogue about the subject matter.

I'm not saying he shouldn't or can't do it. I'm saying go into the project with eyes wide open, ... realize the intense amount of work (and frustration) involved while you climb that mountain ... and this is business, so get a Lawyer. (Dude, I am soooo being Frost's friend on this one ...).

Don't take my word for it, talk with Hound DogOne, OddTrader or anyone else who a) has experience along these lines or b) have a general idea of the amount of work or depth of commiment required for a project like this.

Best Regards,

JJ
 
no have not discussed this with legal counsel yet, although brief google searches and advice from friends and family lead me to believe it could be a very painfull road if someone were to lose a substantial amount of money whether it be their own fault, or even due to a software glitch i created. I have been developing commercial software at my day job for a long time now, and I KNOW this software will have glitches and bugs..that comes with the territory.... I would never be alble to gurantee it will be complety free of bugs, and therefore I woudl always run the risk of some bug showing up and then I getting sued, all for releasing a good free trading platform.....

Doesnt pay to try and do something nice it appears..... Even if I had all sorts of pretty license agreements and disclaimers that needed to be signed in order to use this application, it wont stop someone from at least tryign to sue, and the legal fees alone would be determental to me......

However, the more I think about it, the more I realize its the ATS part of this program that makes it SOOO risky.... that is where substatial losses could happen for users. The backtesting and charting, and things such as chart tick by tick play back for learning purposes and such I think have a much smaller liability attached. So perhaps a route to go would be release this software WITHOUT the ATS componet... although its the ATS componet that makes this whole idea good because it completes the trading platform...
 
Quote from JimmyJam:

Don't take my word for it, talk with Hound Dog, OddTrader or anyone else who a) has experience along these lines or b) have a general idea of the amount of work or depth of commiment required for a project like this.

Best Regards,

JJ
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Actually I'm only a leanrer trying to exchange ideas with many very experienced traders using ATS.

Anyway, searching "automated trading index" on Google might be helpful for getting more pointers/ resources.
 
Quote from OddTrader:

Actually I'm only a leanrer trying to exchange ideas with many very experienced traders using ATS.

Anyway, searching "automated trading index" on Google might be helpful for getting more pointers/ resources.
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Your number of posts threw me! :p
 
Quote from frostengine:

no have not discussed this with legal counsel yet, although brief google searches and advice from friends and family lead me to believe it could be a very painfull road if someone were to lose a substantial amount of money whether it be their own fault, or even due to a software glitch i created. I have been developing commercial software at my day job for a long time now, and I KNOW this software will have glitches and bugs..that comes with the territory.... I would never be alble to gurantee it will be complety free of bugs, and therefore I woudl always run the risk of some bug showing up and then I getting sued, all for releasing a good free trading platform.....
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Well, I'm glad you're talking to people who care about you.

Doesnt pay to try and do something nice it appears..... Even if I had all sorts of pretty license agreements and disclaimers that needed to be signed in order to use this application, it wont stop someone from at least tryign to sue, and the legal fees alone would be determental to me......
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Yeah, it's a funny world, I have lots of business experience, and I've been kicked in my ass plenty of times by people I've trusted and whom I though I was doing a favor for (and to be honest, I've done some kicking too). That's why you have to have legal counsel in all business endeavors.

However, the more I think about it, the more I realize its the ATS part of this program that makes it SOOO risky.... that is where substatial losses could happen for users. The backtesting and charting, and things such as chart tick by tick play back for learning purposes and such I think have a much smaller liability attached. So perhaps a route to go would be release this software WITHOUT the ATS componet... although its the ATS componet that makes this whole idea good because it completes the trading platform...
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You can always create the software without the ATS ... and build on that experience. Eventually you could release a fully functioning automated trading system ... and you definitely had better have a lawyer then, because someone'll probably try to steal it from you and sell it for a profit! :eek:

Later,

JJ
 
It's sort of like walking into a bookstore... and seeing:

"Theory of Relativity for Dummies"...

or

"Neurological Surgery for Dummies"...

or

"Corporate Litigation for Dummies"

or

"Historical Backtesting and Automated Trading Systems for Dummies"

All of these examples are similarily OXYMORONIC.
 
frostengine i personally dont have the need for the type of product you're decribing, though five years ago it could've been very useful. you seem stuck between whether it would be a full ATS platform or simply a backtest platform. but i actually think there is a big need for a free product in between those two. you could create a full ATS platform that as a free product, is only ever intended for use with IBs paper trade account. call it ATS PaperTrader or something by name. its value would be in allowing current non-traders or discretionary traders to try their hand at automating, and get experience with automation in live markets, for low cost. then set it up to only connect to an IB paper trade account (the account type is unique so i'm guessing you can use that).

some people may not be willing to learn your scripting language if its not available for real trading but anyone who's realistic will realise that learning programming languages is easier than creating successful live trading systems. if things progress then you can introduce a fee based license to allow real trading in exchange for an iron clad indemnity, the fee will reimburse your legal fees.
 
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