France is low in science??!?!?
- Thread starter blueraincap
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can someone shed light on experience with the french primary/secondary education? I only read about it that it is similar to developed asia in that it focuses on science/math rigiourously but doesn't encourage interaction, as written in this book http://www.petergumbel.com/en/they-shoot-school-kids-dont-they.php If so, how possibly can france rank so low
Agree!
You seem to know quite well the French system.
I taught science in high school when I was a university student. As soon as I started I was clearly told to adapt my teaching to the slowest students of my class. "No one shall be left behind". And it was one of the best school in Paris!
That principle has to be followed by every teacher. As a parent, you want your kids to be in private school (usually cheap but not affordable to everyone), so you expect better students.
Cram school is huge in SG and Japan but in France, it's more about tutoring and cost quite some money (It paid for my Bachelor's and first Master's).
Moreover there's a trend to make high school degree easier and easier over time. It's acted. There could be many reasons: population below 25y.o. reducing...
And may be last one, companies are often closed in August so employees take 3 or 4 weeks vacations. It's proven that kids that study during this period (before school restarts), have much better results and unfortunately it's also shown that parents from a higher "socio-economic standing" tend to push their kids to study more during those long vacations.
So I believe you're right. It's not as egalitarian as it used to be. Actually I think it's more and more difficult to be egalitarian in the world we're living in.
Yes that's definitely possible.
In Tokyo, I know kids going to cram school just after school for 4 or 5 hours every day. It's about the same in Sg. They are made to be competitive in international competitions.
What about HK?
Singapore education is the best
Actually if you've been here for a while and follow the posts, you would know that @luisHK has kids in the education system and has done a good deal of research including traveling to several spots in Europe and Asia specifically to determine the suitability of the education system for his family in preparation for moving there. He could certainly be making it all up but there's absolutely no reason to imagine him doing so given the length and consistency of his posts on the subject, none of which provide any boost to him in any way. If nothing else, sharing the results of his research, which again he's done quite a bit of over a long period of time, is very valuable for those of us considering similar moves with families.
I don't always agree with @luisHK, in fact I think we've argued quite strenuously in the past. But I do know he's always sincere and free to share what he knows. I don't really know what you've contributed to this community at all, but certainly nothing on this front. You'd be better to emulate him than launch ad hominem attacks on him.
You proved yourself you're so dumb! Now you want to be the dumbest?
You're gonna win!
Back to the topic, stop answering! You don't understand your own question!
That depends what's your reference.
Locally? Internationally?
Expats in Singapore still put their kids in expats school but it's slowly changing! You're right!
Well, that should make the guy happy, ain´t every day he gets a trophy !
Agree with all the Points below, besides cram schools of which I know little (but there are several ones in Paris), just adding some notes/anecdotes.
"You seem to know quite well the French system."
Sure, read several times on this forum that I was french and stated several times I´d spent years in Western Paris (Paris 8th mostly)
"I taught science in high school when I was a university student. As soon as I started I was clearly told to adapt my teaching to the slowest students of my class. "No one shall be left behind". And it was one of the best school in Paris!
That principle has to be followed by every teacher. As a parent, you want your kids to be in private school (usually cheap but not affordable to everyone), so you expect better students.
Cram school is huge in SG and Japan but in France, it's more about tutoring and cost quite some money (It paid for my Bachelor's and first Master's).
Moreover there's a trend to make high school degree easier and easier over time. It's acted.
"
** I´d thought -wrongly apparently - well known private schools in Paris would try and keep higher standards , but lower standards at national level seem to be true by all accounts, they can´t get to over 90% or whatever the current high target for baccalaureat success is by raising standards. I´ve seen some quite amazing grades (the most striking is from a relative who got Tres Bien in a literary section of the french bac, with 20 (100%) in Chinese. She came and visit us in China and couldn´t speak even a simple sentence in mandarin, a bit like me, but i wouldn´t expect more than 0. She wrote some stuff which I found absurd and poorly written about her trip and managed to get it published in a student paper. Art high school and university sections in France appear a serious issue, not only they offer very little employment perspectives but it models the students into imo a counterproductive anti capitalist mindset where they expect to have their leisury activities subsidized - it works for a while until they notice society ain´t gonna pay them more than 1200/1500eur a month for non profitable activities, which sucks once you get pasty 20 y o faced with a whole career with little prospects.
Very familiar with the private tuition popularity in France btw, a few years back my daughter was classmate and friend with the daughter of Maxime Aiach, the founder of Acadomia, possibly the person who beneficiated most of this trend in France and one of the most succesful persons I met (we used to hang out around school time and more rarely on week ends ). Very interesting how he managed to create the company, take it public cashing in big time in the process, diversify into other areas of service to individual than get a great position when the company´s stock went near zero and they were bought back, while aparently keeping his very posh real estate properties and probably quite a bit of cash and investments I wasn´t aware of . While many well off folks decided to move out of France irritated by the problems with the administration there, he also managed to stay there and raise his kids in the same great surroundings he and his wife grew up (Western Paris, Deauville, Cote d´Azur). Having a bunch of lawyers must help dealing with the tax department hanging out months long in his office, I had a few similar issues along most people I know there, and found it quite a bit upsetting.
" It's proven that kids that study during this period (before school restarts), have much better results and unfortunately it's also shown that parents from a higher "socio-economic standing" tend to push their kids to study more during those long vacations.
So I believe you're right. It's not as egalitarian as it used to be. Actually I think it's more and more difficult to be egalitarian in the world we're living in."
** Read similar studies, one actually in the Us I think that claimed all the advance well of kids took over poorer kids came during school holidays.
"Yes that's definitely possible."
Actually Belgium places on top of the european countries in the study OP posted, which makes sense.
I´m not sure what OP (who still doesn´t have kids, thanks Almighty) is on about France, he tried to move to Spain a few months ago and because of limited budget ended up looking for houses in rural areas without another Asian in sight dozens of kms out of Madrid plus found it too rough for his sensibility.
France, especially Paris, is much more expensive, snobbish and agressive. it´s also less safe, he would feel even more miserable there and be faced with folks quite a bit less smiling than in Madrid (I'm very fond of Western Paris, incidently
).
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nah, he just talks longwinded personal particulars as if writing a dairy which doesn't generalise anything. tried to see what he was saying, which turned out full of shits every single time. whatever about him.