fractals, the universe...let's get into it

I'm not highly religious, but I am a sceptical about evolution. As it stands now, it really takes a leap of faith to believe that life spontaneously emerged from a soup of chemicals after an endless stream of random circumstances. I'll believe it when they can run an experiment and prove it, until then it is just a belief that makes atheists feel better. It is also hard to believe that somehow a bunch of fish just decided they wanted to walk on land and sprouted legs, and it was all because of random chance. If they were in water, how did they get the stimulus that being on land was better? It doesn't make sense when you really break it down.

But i'll give you one GG, if evolution is real, then it must be nonlinear and chaotic.
 
Originally posted by dotslashfuture
I'm not highly religious, but I am a sceptical about evolution. As it stands now, it really takes a leap of faith to believe that life spontaneously emerged from a soup of chemicals after an endless stream of random circumstances. I'll believe it when they can run an experiment and prove it, until then it is just a belief that makes atheists feel better. It is also hard to believe that somehow a bunch of fish just decided they wanted to walk on land and sprouted legs, and it was all because of random chance. If they were in water, how did they get the stimulus that being on land was better? It doesn't make sense when you really break it down.

But i'll give you one GG, if evolution is real, then it must be nonlinear and chaotic.
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dotslashfuture,

imo, it's ok to accept the evolving nature of things, and also question how it all started. i have a hard time answering that myself. however, i have no trouble at all understanding how things evolve over long periods of time. just look at my toad story a few posts back...mix that with millions of years.....and it shouldn't sound too crazy.

as far as fish deciding to sprout legs. that isn't really the case. also, there are some who even suggest it may have been the other way. i saw a show on the discovery ch. making the case for some animals evolving into water..while some did stay on land. anyway, that's not the case i'm making..who knows. but i would suggest that you take a deeper look into evolution to understand it better. for starters, take a look at this post i made a few days ago. i did not write the article and it's not perfect, but it's a decent intro to evolution.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=115331&highlight=evolution#post115331
 
Originally posted by Gordon Gekko

i have to say, today is the first day i ever did some research on fractals and i already like the concept.
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"indeed, when Mandelbrot sifted the cotton price data thru IBM's computers, he found ...curves for daily price changes and monthly price changes matched perfectly. Incrediblly, analyzed Mandelbrot's way, the degree of variation had remained constant over a tunultous sixty-year periord that saw two W.W. and a depression"

page 86. easy book to read http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=lib_dp_TFCV/104-3500495-7373541#reader-link

a trader said this book is all he need to start making money but he didn't specify which page he uses :confused:
 
>Hint on the way I do what I do. Read James Gleick's book on Chaos Theory and forget about complicated math and
such. The answer is always there and it projects forward into time, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS and..........look for the
butterfly and the attractor
 
This is a great thread GG

There is something intuitively appealing about Chaos Theory.

It is intuitively appealing for a reason imvho..

Don't listen to anyone who has taken a course in chaos theory/advanced non-linear mathmatics trying to dissuade your intuition ("its just an extention of newtonian phisics.. theres nothing there.. blah blah..")

Just read a couple of introductory chaos theory books a couple of times, and then go out into the woods with your new intuitive instincts..

Look around.. it is EVERYWHERE

Watch the way it governs the way the flames and smoke from your campfire move.

Go to the local river and see the same thing, as the water pours over the rocks and turbulence reveals itself as the RADICAL divider between order and chaos..

Contemplate the real meaning of the FRACTAL: parts within parts within parts.. all the way down, all the way up... all adding to the whole, and the ETERNAL tension/interchange between order/chaos yin/yang etc..

it can be a very fulfilling experience..

Then as the hungry BEAR sees you from behind the foliage,
you can CONTEMPLATE Thom's Cusp Catastrophy Theory as you are being devoured...

(LOL)

:D :D :D
 
Originally posted by dotslashfuture
I'm not highly religious, but I am a sceptical about evolution. As it stands now, it really takes a leap of faith to believe that life spontaneously emerged from a soup of chemicals after an endless stream of random circumstances. I'll believe it when they can run an experiment and prove it, until then it is just a belief that makes atheists feel better. It is also hard to believe that somehow a bunch of fish just decided they wanted to walk on land and sprouted legs, and it was all because of random chance. If they were in water, how did they get the stimulus that being on land was better? It doesn't make sense when you really break it down.
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The Theory of Evolution does not incorporate the ORIGIN of life. Separate field: Abiogenesis.

Anyone that says evolution doesn't exist is a complete dickhead. At its most basic form, evolution points out the patently fuckin obvious: that there once existed certain life forms (eg dinosaurs) that no longer exist. Crude, but that's what evolution theory starts from.

Ignoring the origin of life for the moment, there is no way in the world that believing evolution requires a "leap of faith", no way in the world. The evidence is absolutely overwhelming. The evolution of man himself? Overwhelming. You know what a real leap of faith would be? An alien from another planet believing me that, with all the evidence we have for it, some people on earth still don't "believe in" (as if it were optional) evolution.

BTW, Chas - "as you know, I'm always arguing that there is a Designer." Actually dude, you're hardly "arguing" - providing rational argument and evidence - you're just making empty assertions.
 
LOLOLOL...dan i just love you! you're great bro!


what's your backround dan...you got lots on the ball. (and not just because i agree with everything you say:) )
 
Originally posted by FasterPussycat
LOLOLOL...dan i just love you! you're great bro!


what's your backround dan...you got lots on the ball. (and not just because i agree with everything you say:) )
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why thank you fpc! :)

i don't really think i've been around long enough to have a "background" in anything...(im 25)

my job b4 being a trader was a salesman (GREAT career, for anyone thinking of it, 2nd only to trading)...which is funny, cos that job has practically NOTHING to do with reason and rational argument,...but EVERYTHING to do with appealing to the buyer's emotions....

so i don't think i've got "lots on the ball" (if indeed i do) because of my background... i was pretty quick on the uptake as a kid, and now just read a LOT (and THINK a lot) which is where i get most of my info..
 
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