Fractal Theory: Redux

TS data is raw data so there is really no such thing as 'raw' TS data. When, as Jack used to call them, the big green crew on the sidelines, steps in at the market, the book either stands or falls.
 
This has the potential of being a very good thread providing we do not, as the saying goes, "venture too far down the rabbit-hole".
So let me move things up a few levels and suggest that there are things one sees with DOM that one doesn't see with non-DOM, where DOM refers to the dominant trend not the depth of market. The first thing is that you don't see AT's (accelerated tapes) with non-DOM.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
 
If we accept the idea that markets have a fractal structure, by definition what can be observed on the daily chart, 5 min chart, tick chart, even DOM is the same thing, with different accuracies caused by the differences in the considered variables, and their sampling and displaying resolutions.
 
baro-san said:
If we accept the idea that markets have a fractal structure, by definition what can be observed on the daily chart, 5 min chart, tick chart, even DOM is the same thing, with different accuracies caused by the differences in the considered variables, and their sampling and displaying resolutions.
More...

No argument at all. It is then a question of one finding 'where' it is one prefers to trade in the sense of which time frame. I like 15 min ES. Others will choose something else. One of course can use the time frames above and below the 'trading' time frame as aids.
 
ljyoung said:
This has the potential of being a very good thread providing we do not, as the saying goes, "venture too far down the rabbit-hole".
So let me move things up a few levels and suggest that there are things one sees with DOM that one doesn't see with non-DOM, where DOM refers to the dominant trend not the depth of market. The first thing is that you don't see AT's (accelerated tapes) with non-DOM.
Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
More...

I see that as well. If I see an accelerating tape on increasing volume on a non-dom traverse. Sentiment has shifted and this tape is the new dominant traverse of a new channel. If I see accelerating tape on decreasing volume, I'm looking for a pt 3 of a larger opposing channel.
 
fwiw,
I stumbled upon ET and Jack's teachings a couple of years ago. Recognizing wisdom, I just followed the various 'breadcrumbs' and was determined to see for myself. I didn't understand volumes of concepts. I couldn't follow all the conversations with the trolling, the broken links, websites no longer existing, etc. I didn't understand context. I didn't understand what Jack was building. It took about 1 1/2yrs to collect all the documents I could find.

At first I was 'inventing' more than following. However I was telling myself "but I'm following this systems rules". I didn't see myself. I didn't see the big picture. I didn't see the relationship between the two. I tried trading the methods prematurely and without a more complete understanding. I tried to pick and choose what to apply. My results were profitable at first, then break-even, then miserable, to "I can't even get out of bed."

Did I just waste years of my life and lose a yr salary over something that I just "believed" without putting it to the test?

But I did test it. I coded PVT, did backtesting on it. It has a positive expectancy. I didn't understand the flaw in my logic.
Intuitively, I felt there was something of substance but I just couldn't wrap my mind around it.

So I started doing as Jack suggested starting with pen and paper. Get a bunch of binders, start printing out threads, organize by topic, markup and highlight, do drills, perform MADA, annotate by hand, log, debrief, debrief, debrief ... and when I couldn't find my own answers go back to the various threads and re-read. I didn't necessarily know where the path was leading and at very dark times the fear, doubt and uncertainty was almost unbearable.

Losing money when one understands 'why' is a setback but not damaging. Losing money when one doesn't understand the full nature of the problem or falsely identifying the problem is a quick road to nutsville and literally trauma inducing.

However when one works on a puzzle so long, eventually a piece one picks up has the necessary edges to connect it with other puzzle pieces. The resulting insight into the view allows for the increased pace by which the picture gets completed.

This is the "AHA", or series of "AHA's" that are akin to the frequent religious experience one finds on the hershey / spydertrader threads.

I found that breaks from the material to be useful. Time engaged in other activities allowed my unconscious mind to process and build.

What Jack inspired, created, Spydertrader translated and built with the participation of all whom "had the same question I had" IS a way of SEEING the markets that when realized truly puts one in the place that Jack and Spydertrader have suggested all along.

What was a sticking point for me was annotating, logging and debriefing consistently. The methodology is designed to build "sports memory." The ability to pull the trigger in realtime from tens of thousands of MADA cycles develops a "knowing" which at critical times makes all the difference. There are no shortcuts.

One really does have to "think" through some of the concepts and how they fit together. In the face of confusion and paradox with fear and doubt not far behind, it's easy to lose one's way.

Make friends with ambiguity, it is a better ally then an enemy.

I have much in my journey ahead and for those who started later and are discouraged by hardship, keeping going,... "The view is WORTH IT !!!" and makes the whole trip right, perfect, whole and complete.
 
Sprout said:
fwiw,
I stumbled upon ET and Jack's teachings a couple of years ago. Recognizing wisdom, I just followed the various 'breadcrumbs' and was determined to see for myself. I didn't understand volumes of concepts. I couldn't follow all the conversations with the trolling, the broken links, websites no longer existing, etc. I didn't understand context. I didn't understand what Jack was building. It took about 1 1/2yrs to collect all the documents I could find.

At first I was 'inventing' more than following. However I was telling myself "but I'm following this systems rules". I didn't see myself. I didn't see the big picture. I didn't see the relationship between the two. I tried trading the methods prematurely and without a more complete understanding. I tried to pick and choose what to apply. My results were profitable at first, then break-even, then miserable, to "I can't even get out of bed."

Did I just waste years of my life and lose a yr salary over something that I just "believed" without putting it to the test?

But I did test it. I coded PVT, did backtesting on it. It has a positive expectancy. I didn't understand the flaw in my logic.
Intuitively, I felt there was something of substance but I just couldn't wrap my mind around it.

So I started doing as Jack suggested starting with pen and paper. Get a bunch of binders, start printing out threads, organize by topic, markup and highlight, do drills, perform MADA, annotate by hand, log, debrief, debrief, debrief ... and when I couldn't find my own answers go back to the various threads and re-read. I didn't necessarily know where the path was leading and at very dark times the fear, doubt and uncertainty was almost unbearable.

Losing money when one understands 'why' is a setback but not damaging. Losing money when one doesn't understand the full nature of the problem or falsely identifying the problem is a quick road to nutsville and literally trauma inducing.

However when one works on a puzzle so long, eventually a piece one picks up has the necessary edges to connect it with other puzzle pieces. The resulting insight into the view allows for the increased pace by which the picture gets completed.

This is the "AHA", or series of "AHA's" that are akin to the frequent religious experience one finds on the hershey / spydertrader threads.

I found that breaks from the material to be useful. Time engaged in other activities allowed my unconscious mind to process and build.

What Jack inspired, created, Spydertrader translated and built with the participation of all whom "had the same question I had" IS a way of SEEING the markets that when realized truly puts one in the place that Jack and Spydertrader have suggested all along.

What was a sticking point for me was annotating, logging and debriefing consistently. The methodology is designed to build "sports memory." The ability to pull the trigger in realtime from tens of thousands of MADA cycles develops a "knowing" which at critical times makes all the difference. There are no shortcuts.

One really does have to "think" through some of the concepts and how they fit together. In the face of confusion and paradox with fear and doubt not far behind, it's easy to lose one's way.

Make friends with ambiguity, it is a better ally then an enemy.

I have much in my journey ahead and for those who started later and are discouraged by hardship, keeping going,... "The view is WORTH IT !!!" and makes the whole trip right, perfect, whole and complete.
More...
Consider carefully that you maybe wasting your time. Consider that you may be addicted to the journey and not actually trying to make money.
 
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