Fractal Theory I

[plantrader]

I would rather struggle with posts that are different than to not get the benefit of seeing them at all. Using the line strengths and annotation conventions described here has been a difficult adjustment for me. I don't regret the change, though and I trust that in the end it will prove to provide a better perspective.

Ditto, feel free to post things that're different. Whatever you're clear on, feel free to post it. No harm in that, and someone might benefit.

 

[plantrader]

Regarding your question about VE's; I think you're losing track of your fractals when considering them. I sharpen trend-lines with ITZ for the fractal which was ITZ'd. With NITZ, the fractal which was NITZ'd is expanded but if there is a visible sub-fractal which formed the NITZ, you need to annotate its containers and sequences properly before resolving the larger trend.

The completion and sub-subsequent FTT of the lower fractals creates the points of the higher fractal. In your example, you have two NITZ of the teal container. One creates point two of the NITZ's sub-fractal which is annotated in purple, and the second FTT's it. It's a mistake to try to apply the same exact procedure and expectation of WMCN to them.

Heroic, in thinking some more on your reply, I'm wondering if what we're annotating in real time as the fastest thing we're tracking as the teal container, and we VE it twice... why would we draw the purple TLs? The VE signaled us to do so, to define a sub-fractal to what was previously our fastest trackable fractal?

If a VE means cloning of LTL & re-anchoring it, why would we also accelerate by drawing the purple lines? I can see how you'd see it as a sub-fractal of the teal, but since we had a VE why wouldn't we leave that container as 'expanded' (via the VEs)? Are you saying when we VE, although we expand the container at hand, we're also signaling that a sub-fractal is created? Thereby, a VE essentially means we need to 'accelerate' by drawing steeper TLs? As long as we don't make the mistake of thinking the VE-induced steeper TLs are on the same fractal as the thing we VE'd, and we should see it as a sub-fractal that also now has to complete? Not sure if I'm being clear, but hope so.

Edit: What I'm trying to say is, I think I understood that a VE puts us at a new Pt2 of our container, by definition. Basically it's a "new Pt2", right? Hence needing another Pt3 and FTT, correct? Does that cover why you're identifying a sub-fractal? My confusion might be that I was seeing the purple lines as having accelerated our teal thing (which is why I was asking if we should/shouldn't). We in fact didn't accel the teal thing, correct? Where does that teal thing FTT and why? Any chance you could markup the snipet with appropriate color TLs to show how you'd know the teal thing was finished or not finished? Via sub-fractals or however? The trend carried on & on today, but even a partial annotation of this trend might help me get to the root of why I end up seeing my faster things as so useless during run-on trends.

 

[midtown]

I don't know purple from teal...just saying.

 

[plantrader]

I don't know purple from teal...just saying.

lol Teal is green/turquoise looking and purple is pink looking. On my monitor they look turquoise & pink. Is that the color blindness thing, or maybe it's your monitor.

 

[midtown]

Color blindness. No worry, I'll find a way to compensate.

 

[plantrader]

Color blindness. No worry, I'll find a way to compensate.

In my chart image, the steepest thin fast TLs are the 'purple' ones, and the thin slower ones that VE are the ones we're referring to as teal.

 

[midtown]

Thanks!

 

[llIHeroic]

You aren't asking the right questions imo. I'll humor you though.

Here is how I would handle the teal thing you're referring to, but seeing me draw a few TL's isn't going to help you at all when you don't understand what is happening inside of said container. You haven't even drawn gaussians in.

 

[llIHeroic]

Basically it's a "new Pt2", right?

Yes and no.

Hence needing another Pt3 and FTT, correct?

Yes and no.

Does that cover why you're identifying a sub-fractal?

Yes and no.

---

I feel like had this conversation already. It sounds like you're asking questions about general procedures to handle all VE's everywhere. The answers are almost always going to be context dependent. You rapid-firing a dozen questions per post and me answering them isn't going to help you.

I posted the particular content and suggestions at the beginning of the thread for a reason. I suggested that individuals learn to annotate bar-by-bar containers and build them into FC's. I suggested that individuals track the relative volume changes from one bar to the next. I suggested that after those basics are mastered, they begin to look inside of FC's and try to see how there are two dominant legs and their relative volatility can be compared.

These are some great starting points in order to start training yourself to see and understand the fractal nature of the market and begin to comprehend how they nest. It doesn't look like you're doing that. You've just drawn a huge channel over about half the day and asked me why we should draw something inside of it, with no annotations in the volume pane whatsoever.

Here are some of the prompts that actual real-time analysis consists of.

 

[plantrader]

Yes and no.



Yes and no.



Yes and no.

---

I feel like had this conversation already. It sounds like you're asking questions about general procedures to handle all VE's everywhere. The answers are almost always going to be context dependent. You rapid-firing a dozen questions per post and me answering them isn't going to help you.

I posted the particular content and suggestions at the beginning of the thread for a reason. I suggested that individuals learn to annotate bar-by-bar containers and build them into FC's. I suggested that individuals track the relative volume changes from one bar to the next. I suggested that after those basics are mastered, they begin to look inside of FC's and try to see how there are two dominant legs and their relative volatility can be compared.

These are some great starting points in order to start training yourself to see and understand the fractal nature of the market and begin to comprehend how they nest. It doesn't look like you're doing that. You've just drawn a huge channel over about half the day and asked me why we should draw something inside of it, with no annotations in the volume pane whatsoever.

Here are some of the prompts that actual real-time analysis consists of.

Thanks for the reply. Sorry for lack of gaussians, I do understand nesting fractals and the how/why of it. My initial question was just about one section of TLs, but I should have included gaussians anyway. I think I can learn some helpful things here. The mentoring I received might not have given me the insights needed, based on your questions. I hope you can hang in there with me so I can find out. I'll reply again tomorrow when I'm not on a phone. But my general answer to your BO question is that if we can FTT the new container then it's valid on some level and may or may not end up needing to be fanned. Whether we fan it or not depends on how much is within it, what builds after it, and what we already have inside the prior container. I typically fan around (as if demoting it) FCs that don't FTT, as long as price ends up continuing in the direction of the previous existing trend/container.

I also suspect I'm lacking some granular subfractal skills for being able to fully answer your BO/fanning question. Not an annotation problem, but a what/why problem. I understand context changes things, and I definitely understand how to draw bar to bar. I did 12+ months of organized class and homework twice weekly with a mentor, and associated time/effort on related analysis. But I realize, that doesn't mean I was taught and/or learned everything I need. Was I doing repetitions of material that didn't cover what it should have to do this "correctly"? I don't know yet. Did I practice and reinforce any faulty basics, assumptions, or guidelines? I don't know yet. I'm here to learn though. I feel a few clarifications will go a long way, because of already having a fair amount of basics and awareness under my belt (or basis for understanding even what might end up as new info).