Former Poker player...Where do I start?

I've traded for a long time, and have played poker extensively. Poker and trading are quite different.

1. With poker, you are gambling a lot more. You can turn $10 into $1000 "relatively" easy. In trading, you really only turn $10,000 into $11,000. OK, with futures, 5 contracts at $500 margin; however, you still NEED that amount ($2500 minimum) in an account. With poker, you only need the buy-in. that greg guy won millions with like $25. 25 to win the seat at the WSOP. you simply can't do this with trading.

2. All-in AA can easily lose to 27off and you are done. In trading, you can stop-out before putting in all your chips. Maybe 1 out of a 1000 times it gaps soo much you can't, but that is soo rare.

3. Seems like in trading you want to play less hands. some poker players have 5 tables going at once.

4. poker players are generally not too emotional about money, and that is good....

5. a large stack owns a table. a million dollar trading account is nothing to the HFT's that print zillions by the seconds.
 
Quote from d08:

Buffett is an investor, he is the furthest thing from a trader. Seems you can't even make this simple distinction.
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I think I heard even though he still drinks it, he finally sold his KO, so that makes him a trader. The furthest thing from a trader is a broker.

otherwise, please inform where this simple distinction lies between investing and trading. Time? How much time? Day?Week?Month?Year?

If I am scalping gold with a trailing stop and it doesn't get hit for ten years am I now no longer a trader? (oh by the way, Warren is long silver and has been for a long time, is that an investment? How do you invest in a metal? It just sits there and doesn't do anything. It's not like buying a business.)

You sure you are not just making simple distinctions where there really are none?
 
Quote from Swan Noir:

Recognize from day one that trading is a game with two major advantages over poker:

1) There is essentially no ante. You have a few overhead costs but think of that as the carfare someone pays to get to the casino. Incrementally you pay opportunity cost when sitting tight but not a cash cost. Combined with point two it allows you to be even more selective with your starting hands than in poker.

2) In highly liquid markets -- ES is the best example -- every bet you make during regular trading hours will be faded. And the fact that you are a tight player will not be known to your opponents. Once you know what wired aces look like in this game you can bet them as heavily as you chose -- again in highly liquid markets -- and no one folds. Just as in poker, it does not mean your aces will hold up but it does mean you can go into every hand you play with a definable edge which will pay out over a large number of hands.

Build around these two facts and recognize, also from day one, you must scalp. From your description of yourself it is the only place in the market you will feel at home.

I spent 10 weeks -- a summer -- in AC playing Tuesday night through Sunday evening. I covered the nut -- which was modest -- but could not earn anything above expenses.
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all good points
in addition, the market's incredible propensity to trend which when compared to cards would just about be a mathmatical impossibilty.

The difference is, in poker you bet on cards and what the other player will do. In the markets you are betting on how much everybody will bet. And there is also the bet on who will win and who will go on full tilt.
 
When your primary route to wealth has been a derivation of Graham & Dodd that is where the simple distinction lies. That is not to say he has never done a trade or even numerous trades be he is clearly on the investment end of the spectrum.

Quote from oldtime:

I think I heard even though he still drinks it, he finally sold his KO, so that makes him a trader. The furthest thing from a trader is a broker.

otherwise, please inform where this simple distinction lies between investing and trading. Time? How much time? Day?Week?Month?Year?

If I am scalping gold with a trailing stop and it doesn't get hit for ten years am I now no longer a trader? (oh by the way, Warren is long silver and has been for a long time, is that an investment? How do you invest in a metal? It just sits there and doesn't do anything. It's not like buying a business.)

You sure you are not just making simple distinctions where there really are none?
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No you are not "always playing your own bankroll". There is no shortage of "rounders" and the splits top players can negotiate given just the right star struck asshole who runs a tool and die company in East Bumfuck make playing their own cash totally uneconomical.

You say trading is a "negative sum game" as if the rake/drop in poker makes it a positive sum game.

Quote from CoolTraderDude:

2. Trading is a "cash game" all the time... You're always playing your own bankroll.

3. Trading is a negative sum game due to commissions.

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Quote from Swan Noir:

When your primary route to wealth has been a derivation of Graham & Dodd that is where the simple distinction lies. That is not to say he has never done a trade or even numerous trades be he is clearly on the investment end of the spectrum.
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true, the point is, he's one of the few that made it in the market, not management fees or anything else. I think fees were part of it, but not most of it.

Even Graham and Dodd have to buy low and sell high. That is a trade. Don't see much difference between analyzing a balance sheet or analyzing a chart, either way you have to make a trade to get in. If I am a trader with a risk reward ratio of 1 to infinity, my best trade is the one I put on and never take off. But that doesn't make me an investor. The same way buying GM because I think they will sell a lot cars in the next five years doesn't make me an investor.

But I will agree with you, his approach was always to buy companies not stocks. Now he's so big, even too big for the stock market that that is exactly what he does. But at anyrate, very few people any of us have heard of have ever made their money in the market.
 
Quote from oldtime:

true, the point is, he's one of the few that made it in the market, not management fees or anything else. I think fees were part of it, but not most of it.
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Holding for years or decades makes him an investor as it's the fundamentals that come into play in such a long term view. He started buying KO in the late 80s, the short term supply and demand of the stock wasn't the basis for his investment.
While there is no clear line between an investor and a trader, I'm sure most here would agree that a trader doesn't spend time analyzing debt ratios, cash flow while accumulating stock for years and becoming a major shareholder.
 
Is that a "yes, he is primarily an investor" or "he is a trader". Or is it a Mitt Romney answer?

Quote from oldtime:

true, the point is, he's one of the few that made it in the market, not management fees or anything else. I think fees were part of it, but not most of it.

Even Graham and Dodd have to buy low and sell high. That is a trade. Don't see much difference between analyzing a balance sheet or analyzing a chart, either way you have to make a trade to get in. If I am a trader with a risk reward ratio of 1 to infinity, my best trade is the one I put on and never take off. But that doesn't make me an investor. The same way buying GM because I think they will sell a lot cars in the next five years doesn't make me an investor.

But I will agree with you, his approach was always to buy companies not stocks. Now he's so big, even too big for the stock market that that is exactly what he does. But at anyrate, very few people any of us have heard of have ever made their money in the market.
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