then how did he make money if you didn't? this doesn't make sense. Are you a SHILL?
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then how did he make money if you didn't? this doesn't make sense. Are you a SHILL?
Quote from failed_trad3r:
then how did he make money if you didn't? this doesn't make sense. Are you a SHILL?
His commentary is negative...tough to be a shill if posting negative commentary about a service.
However, I'll answer you question about how difficult it is to be profitable following someone's real-time posted trades.
First of all, there's mainly two types of real-time signal calling services.
(1) Those that post their trades in advance (e.g. buy or sell when a particular price is reached)
(2) Those that post their trades as they are occuring (e.g. I just bought XYZ @ 54.15 or I just sold XYZ @ 54.15
It's the number (2) types above that are the most difficult and most common type of signal calling services. It's very common for users to not be profitable while the signal caller is profitable on simulator or real money because of several reasons:
* As soon as the trade call is made...by the time you see it on your screen and then react to it...you will not get the same price as the signal caller posted.
Now imagine the price differences between your trades and the trades of the signal caller if you're using a different broker, different charting software, different ISP connection speed, different commission levels et cetera. The trade results between your trades and that of the signal caller can easily be that someone is going to be profitable and the other is a loser. Just the same, it's the exact same reasons why clients of the signal caller have different results amongst themselves.
How do I know this?
I've been a member of many free chat rooms over the past 10 years where there were some very good traders that consistently posted clear trade signals from entry to exit in real-time that were profitable. However, other members trying to follow every posted trade of any particular profitable trader were not able to catch EVERY trade, were not able to get the same trade price or used different trade management after entry in comparison to the signal caller.
For example of different trade management...the signal caller has deep pockets or pretends to have deep pockets and uses a 6 point stop. However, you following his trade call feels that the 6 point stop is too much. You then use a 1.5 point stop and get stopped out for a loss when the trade goes against you 1.5 points while the signal caller is still in the trade. The trade then reverses after taking you out for a loss and becomes profitable reaching whatever profit target the signal caller said to exit at.
Thus, the signal caller is profitable while you are not. There's many other examples but you get the point.
Simply, if Jreality doesn't get the EXACT same entries and exits and does not take EVERY trade...his trade results will greatly be different than that of any signal caller regardless if the signal caller is on simulator, real money or has an audited/verifiable trading account. Thus, you can't do a pretty good job...you must do a perfect job via taking EVERY trade via the EXACT same prices along with using the exact same broker, trading platform, same or better ISP connection speed et cetera.
By the way, there was a sponsor here at ET many years ago (not puretick) that was arguing with a ET member that said he wasn't profitable in following the signal calls. The ET member showed a copy of his broker statement and so did another member that showed up to support what the other ET member had said.
The one thing I noticed that nobody commented about was that both ET members statements of the same trading day had different trading results...one lost a few hundred while the other lost a little over 1k...yet both supposibly did a good job in following the calls. If that's true..why was there such a huge difference amongst the trade results of the clients when comparing one client to another client ???
Answer, same reason why it's possible for a signal caller like the type (2) to be profitable and the client to be a loser or vice versa. Thus, if you're going to use a signal calling service...try the type (1) instead of the type (2) and don't ask me for any recommendations.
Mark
I'm not understanding why anyone would believe me to be a shill. Based on my 2 months experience in the room, I don't really recommend it. While I believe that, over time, the person running the room is likely profitable, I lost money attempting to follow him during the 2 months I was in the room. I believe I did as best as reasonably possible to follow him and I lost money. He kept talking about trend trading but usually only took small scalps and kept saying that there would be better trading ahead.
The person running the room traded live and you could see his DOM, but attempting to follow him to the letter was stressful and you never knew when he was going to start out relatively small and then scale in big. He also traded as much as 1 or 2 hundred contracts at times which isn't realistic for most people that would be looking to join a room due to having troubles with their own trading. It wasn't always easy to attempt to take his trades with proportionally smaller sizes since he didn't always explain ahead of time how he planned on scaling in.
Granted, he certainly had way more winners than losers during the 2 months I was in the room, but the winners were generally very small scalps (as little as 1 or 2 ticks) and a big loser could easily wipe out a week or two worth of profits. Keep in mind that a "winning trade" often involves scaling into a position, with 2nd or 3rd buys sometimes being twice as large as the first, and it can be difficult to scale in multiple times and get the same average price that the person running the room is getting. He wouldn't usually call out his orders as he placed them, so you would have to keep your eyes glued to his DOM if you wanted to follow him, and sometimes if you blinked you might miss a buy, or a scale in, or a change to an existing order. Very stressful! While I believe him to be profitable over time, I also believe that he likely makes more money from subscription fees than trading.
Unless something has changed since I left the room, I don't really recommend it. EDIT: He comes across as a nice guy that means well, but the room didn't really help me achieve what I wanted to a achieve.
The person running the room traded live and you could see his DOM, but attempting to follow him to the letter was stressful and you never knew when he was going to start out relatively small and then scale in big. He also traded as much as 1 or 2 hundred contracts at times which isn't realistic for most people that would be looking to join a room due to having troubles with their own trading. It wasn't always easy to attempt to take his trades with proportionally smaller sizes since he didn't always explain ahead of time how he planned on scaling in.
Granted, he certainly had way more winners than losers during the 2 months I was in the room, but the winners were generally very small scalps (as little as 1 or 2 ticks) and a big loser could easily wipe out a week or two worth of profits. Keep in mind that a "winning trade" often involves scaling into a position, with 2nd or 3rd buys sometimes being twice as large as the first, and it can be difficult to scale in multiple times and get the same average price that the person running the room is getting. He wouldn't usually call out his orders as he placed them, so you would have to keep your eyes glued to his DOM if you wanted to follow him, and sometimes if you blinked you might miss a buy, or a scale in, or a change to an existing order. Very stressful! While I believe him to be profitable over time, I also believe that he likely makes more money from subscription fees than trading.
Unless something has changed since I left the room, I don't really recommend it. EDIT: He comes across as a nice guy that means well, but the room didn't really help me achieve what I wanted to a achieve.
That is correct. I did the best I could to follow him, but it would be unrealistic to expect to PERFECTLY follow him, and...who knows?....maybe that would be necessary to be profitable over time. Another issue is that he scaled into as much as 1 or 2 hundred contracts at times and scalped 1 or 2 ticks with that size. I would not be comfortable trading those sizes, so my profits on those 1 or 2 tick trades were beer money at best.
Like I said many times before elsewhere at ET about this issue involving type (2) signal callers...if the clients aren't trading the same size, using the same broker, same commission rates, same trading platform, same charting, same trading software setup on the same number of monitors, same or better ISP connection speed et cetera...
Trading results between the signal caller and clients will vary greatly as it will be amongst the clients themselves when comparing one client to another client. Simply, if a client doesn't have the same trading tools...that client needs to realize the results will be different and most likely not satisfactory.
Mark
this may be true what you say but price action doesn't lie. If Robert Hoffman teches you to fish and learn price action how did you screw up so badly and lose SEVEN THOUSAND dollars?:eek:
Didn't he teach you how to trade properly?
To the original poster of this thread, please, please, PLEASE do NOT buy any of that forex course garbage. You're much better off going to a free site like forexfactory.com and reading/studying the strategies used by some of the more experienced FX traders on there(look for the ones with at least 1000 posts), study the charts they post,....... and be patient.
P.S. Concentrate on either the GBP/USD or EUR/USD only !! Dont try to multitask yourself into following many pairs bcuz you'll just make harder on yourself.... Good luck,,
P.S. Concentrate on either the GBP/USD or EUR/USD only !! Dont try to multitask yourself into following many pairs bcuz you'll just make harder on yourself.... Good luck,,
I think you're talking to someone else and accidentally put my quote in your reply because I don't know Robert Hoffman and I have not used his/their services.
I dropped in on this thread to respond to your question about how a type (2) signal caller has different results than his/her clients along with explaining why clients themselves have different results when compared to each other.
With that said, to respond to this question assuming you meant to use the word "someone" instead of using the "you" word towards me...if this signal caller is also teaching the method along with being a signal caller...how does someone lose 7k.
I don't know the specifics because is the 7k loss based upon someone trading on their own (not mimicking the signal caller) via the taught method or is the 7k loss based upon following the signal calls only or a mixture of both. ???
Thus, is Robert Hoffman a mentor or signal caller or both and whom lost 7k in this thread because I just re-read this thread and nobody said they lost 7k.
P.S. I don't know whom specifically Jreality was talking about considering he didn't name the person and the link he posted doesn't work. Thus, it looks like you and Jreality is talking about information from another thread.
Mark
This link SHOULD work:
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174130&highlight=live
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=174130&highlight=live
Hands down.... some of the BEST production quality materials you'll see in this industry!!
I personally have 24 of their courses!!
YES, 24 of them.... acquired most of them from 2nd & 3rd hand owners... BUT, that doesn't diminish their value!!
I think Chris Lori & Vic Noble are extremely interesting to listen to, not to mention QUITE INFORMATIVE!!
I've been day-trading futures since 1995 full-time... I've run my own "Investors Group"... LAFSG (look it up)... I've seen a lot of stuff... so, I know what I am talking about!!
If I could personally deal with IDIOTS better... I myself could teach this stuff.... I SIMPLY WON'T PUT UP WITH IDIOTS!! (my one & only flaw )
Any way... Bottom line.... ForexMentors.... GOOD QUALITY, INFORMATIVE INFORMATION!!
Worth every penny... even if I had paid FULL-PRICE for the courses!!
Happy Trading All,
TraderJMB
I personally have 24 of their courses!!
YES, 24 of them.... acquired most of them from 2nd & 3rd hand owners... BUT, that doesn't diminish their value!!
I think Chris Lori & Vic Noble are extremely interesting to listen to, not to mention QUITE INFORMATIVE!!
I've been day-trading futures since 1995 full-time... I've run my own "Investors Group"... LAFSG (look it up)... I've seen a lot of stuff... so, I know what I am talking about!!
If I could personally deal with IDIOTS better... I myself could teach this stuff.... I SIMPLY WON'T PUT UP WITH IDIOTS!! (my one & only flaw
)Any way... Bottom line.... ForexMentors.... GOOD QUALITY, INFORMATIVE INFORMATION!!
Worth every penny... even if I had paid FULL-PRICE for the courses!!
Happy Trading All,
TraderJMB