For those who doubt Bitcoin potential as a payment currency, try this

[virtusa]

This would not happen. Every single time I used bitcoin as a payment method, I was presented with an invoice payable in btc amount that has a timer. As long as your bitcoin transfer (transaction) is in the mempool, the sale contract is complete. If your invoice timer expires before you actually send the bitcoin, don't bother sending, the sale is voided.

This problem I never had with any fiat money.

Last friday BTC was over 40K and 72 hours later it was around 30K. if you buy groceries it is not a problem as you pay instantly, so the volatility is not a huge problem. Althought it can fall or go up 1K in minutes. But if I want to sell a house ( or sell a car, boat or plane) I need several days to prepare all legal documents. A drop of 25% is than dramatic. Or I lose the money if I persist in the sale, or I lose the sale. With fiat money I never have that problem. I know that in 1 month my money will still have the same value.

Same problem with savings. If I need some money from my savings urgently and it is a bad moment I can lose up to 80% of the value of my savings (biggest drawdowns). I don't have this problem with fiat money. Savings is related to safe; but your savings are not safe at all in BTC as you never know what the value will be when you need it.

Why would I take such a huge risk?

 

[DiceAreCast]

Well you would not and should not. Because you seem to be a sane person.

The crypto space and many other suspect areas of life are inhabited by people who are disadvantaged by the current system and need someone to blame for their lack of participation. They put their hopes in something that pays off greatly with a miniscule probability. Some call it a lottery ticket. Others call it HOPE. I believe nothing else explains better why this space is so overpopulated with gunslinger and the hopeful. Because it certainly is not logic and facts that favors this space.

This problem I never had with any fiat money.

Last friday BTC was over 40K and 72 hours later it was around 30K. if you buy groceries it is not a problem as you pay instantly, so the volatility is not a huge problem. Althought it can fall or go up 1K in minutes. But if I want to sell a house ( or sell a car, boat or plane) I need several days to prepare all legal documents. A drop of 25% is than dramatic. Or I lose the money if I persist in the sale, or I lose the sale. With fiat money I never have that problem. I know that in 1 month my money will still have the same value.

Same problem with savings. If I need some money from my savings urgently and it is a bad moment I can lose up to 80% of the value of my savings (biggest drawdowns). I don't have this problem with fiat money. Savings is relate dto safe; but your savings are not safe at all in BTC as you never know what the value will be when you need it.

Why would I take such a huge risk?

 

[VicBee]

Yes, you even still use checks. My children don't even now what that is. They pay with cell phone or laptop. Instant payments, no cost.

Yes but, at least in Spain, there's a high monthly maintenance fee of 14 euro for having a bank account. No such thing in the US.

 

[longshort]

I mostly agree, however it does have some intrinsic value which is:
-at least the cost of electricity spent to 'mine' it
-the underlying distributed network infrastructure of hundreds of thousands GPUs with great computing capacity

Future internet economy will build on this network.

The electricity is just wasted and doesn't contribute to BTC's value because BTC itself is useless. Nobody needs it for anything, there's no end use.

I could spend a month to type random characters into a text file (could be named coin.txt). Would you pay me a month of wages for it?

GPUs have intrinsic value regardless of Bit"coin".

 

[DiceAreCast]

Nonsense, should I show you the Spanish bank accounts without maintenance fee with certain minimum account balances?

Yes but, at least in Spain, there's a high monthly maintenance fee of 14 euro for having a bank account. No such thing in the US.

 

[VicBee]

Nonsense, should I show you the Spanish bank accounts without maintenance fee with certain minimum account balances?

I have a bank account with Bankia (not easy to open a bank account in Spain as a foreigner!). They charge me a 14 euro per month maintenance fee, which is a discount because my renter's monthly rent goes to that account. The fee would be waved IF I subscribed their property insurance which happens to be 300 euro more than my existing one... in addition, they have expensive international transfer fees to/out of account. Bankia is merging with Caxia to become one of, if not the biggest bank in Spain.

 

[smallfil]

What I see coming is businesses selling shares in their businesses but, targeted specifically, to specific projects or developments for instance. It will have intrinsic value because say apartment buildings being constructed yet, would have a storehouse of value that is tangible. Take for instance, a developer with a huge number of apartment units. He sells , shares in his investments. So, if he has several projects, you can buy in on some of them only. So you share in the monthly, rental income being a landlord now minus management fees by the company. Unlike now where you buy the whole company, this would only be for a specific say development. Like venture capitalism for the little average joe. It could be an invention or a new business idea but, everyone can easily get in no matter your stature in life. This could apply to farms, vineyards, commodities, etc.

 

[DiceAreCast]

Many banks in Spain as anywhere else in Europe waive the fees if you hold a minimum balance in the account, oftentimes just 2000 euros or so. Wire transfers cost around 10-30 euros regardless of the wired amount, I don't call this excessive unless you send just a few euros. Domestic transfers are often free of charge though I can't comment on this particular issue with Spanish banks. I know this is the case in most Scandinavian countries, Holland, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland, Canada, and many others.

I have a bank account with Bankia (not easy to open a bank account in Spain as a foreigner!). They charge me a 14 euro per month maintenance fee, which is a discount because my renter's monthly rent goes to that account. The fee would be waved IF I subscribed their property insurance which happens to be 300 euro more than my existing one... in addition, they have expensive international transfer fees to/out of account. Bankia is merging with Caxia to become one of, if not the biggest bank in Spain.

 

[Pekelo]

Guide to how to use a depreciating asset with high transaction fee as an incredibly convoluted payment method:

1. Just don't.

----------------------------

Joking aside, if you really want to use a crypto, just use Litecoin instead of the shit called BTC. It is faster with minimal fees. Why would you invent a completely new thing (LN) when you could just make up a new crypto with more advanced features and Bamm!, problem solved?

 

[johnarb]

This problem I never had with any fiat money.

Last friday BTC was over 40K and 72 hours later it was around 30K. if you buy groceries it is not a problem as you pay instantly, so the volatility is not a huge problem. Althought it can fall or go up 1K in minutes. But if I want to sell a house ( or sell a car, boat or plane) I need several days to prepare all legal documents. A drop of 25% is than dramatic. Or I lose the money if I persist in the sale, or I lose the sale. With fiat money I never have that problem. I know that in 1 month my money will still have the same value.

Same problem with savings. If I need some money from my savings urgently and it is a bad moment I can lose up to 80% of the value of my savings (biggest drawdowns). I don't have this problem with fiat money. Savings is related to safe; but your savings are not safe at all in BTC as you never know what the value will be when you need it.

Why would I take such a huge risk?

That is the reason I'm invested in bitcoin as a scarce, highly speculative investment, digital asset, with a bonus of being able to use as a payment method, but is not required.

Yes, bitcoin as an investment is very volatile, it can go up fast, it can go down fast and when you're ready to get out, you simply sell it. Don't think of where you used the money and how much that item will cost if the price of bitcoin continues to go up, because the same can be said if the price of bitcoin goes down.

Same as Tesla shares. If after you sell it, it continues to go up, do not have regrets because you're out of position.

One thing you cannot do if you have 100 Tesla shares is to have one of the shares on a phone wallet and spend it at NewEgg, on a hotel, on airfare, on VPS or on VPN service, etc. However, you can do this with your bitcoins, you can have a small portion on a local wallet and use it as a payment method, but no one is forcing you to do this. You do not have to spend it.