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For those that make 4 or 5 grand a day net
- Thread starter FastandFurious
- Start date
This post is probably OT to the OP.
whether a person trades stocks or commodities or both, the individual equity curves will not remain at some set level over time.
This includes considerations of: initial capital; capital removed periodically; how a person's knowledge, skills and experience changes; and how the market context changes.
Any trader who is trading to make money has a business plan that in its formulation addresses many issues and the net result of this effort leads to a rising equity curve that tends to steepen over time.
Markers like earnings per day at a given level are approached, met and surpassed.
Any adjustments to the business plan will usually hasten the crossing date of such markers. This is defacto.
That said, a trader does not trade full time until his plan calls for that effort. the time when that occurs is most dependant on how keeping a job gets him to the point where his business plan will be showing a continuous increase in capital and therefore a continuing increase in earnings per day.
Were a person to reflect on the fact that he is not passing milestones in earnings per day, then he would correct that situation as a highest priority and make sure he no longer remains in a static level of earnings per day at whatever level it may be.
A static level of earnings per day is a statement that is a warning sign that something is wrong with the person's planning and trading approach. There is no alyernative viewpoint to this conclusion about static earning levels.
This thread is very specific about a range of handicaps that people have that they are choosing to maintain. Whatever the reasons, the reasons for maintaining these handicaps are inappropriate. there is never a justification for maintaining a handicap by choise. The reson is that this irrational level of thinking affects other aspects of performance, effectiveness and efficiency.
The primary tool for completing the financial statement and the P and L of business plans is the compound interest formula. The primary force of the formula is the exponent; next is the profit per cycle and third is the initial capital.
Therefore, the most significant trader transition, going full time, is determined by the approach to be used and not the initial capital. If the exponent is not sufficient that is the poorest condition to condend with; profit per trade is another important point of contention.
All readers feel that I am not addressing what is their most pressing considerations. They and I are using differing paradigms, basically. I do not use the betting paradigm; it can lead to conventional Sharpe ratios, drawdowns; risk of ruin; protection requirements and "money management" as conventionally described.
If a person turns toward measuring knowledge, skills and experience; performance; effectiveness; and efficiency against the potential of what the market offers, then a different business plan approach is required from him. This orientation to planning and operations is what leads to the possibility of considering levels of earnings per day as just milestones along an equity curve that is able to contain about any milestones imaginable as time passes.
If a personcan understand this, then they can plan for having a lifestyle at different ages that is what they want. Almost any life style is attainable at any age when the potential of the markets is the basis of reasoning. And there are capital leftovers as well that can be deployed as desired.
It will be difficult for those who are blocked and stuck to deal with this post. They make that decision, however.
whether a person trades stocks or commodities or both, the individual equity curves will not remain at some set level over time.
This includes considerations of: initial capital; capital removed periodically; how a person's knowledge, skills and experience changes; and how the market context changes.
Any trader who is trading to make money has a business plan that in its formulation addresses many issues and the net result of this effort leads to a rising equity curve that tends to steepen over time.
Markers like earnings per day at a given level are approached, met and surpassed.
Any adjustments to the business plan will usually hasten the crossing date of such markers. This is defacto.
That said, a trader does not trade full time until his plan calls for that effort. the time when that occurs is most dependant on how keeping a job gets him to the point where his business plan will be showing a continuous increase in capital and therefore a continuing increase in earnings per day.
Were a person to reflect on the fact that he is not passing milestones in earnings per day, then he would correct that situation as a highest priority and make sure he no longer remains in a static level of earnings per day at whatever level it may be.
A static level of earnings per day is a statement that is a warning sign that something is wrong with the person's planning and trading approach. There is no alyernative viewpoint to this conclusion about static earning levels.
This thread is very specific about a range of handicaps that people have that they are choosing to maintain. Whatever the reasons, the reasons for maintaining these handicaps are inappropriate. there is never a justification for maintaining a handicap by choise. The reson is that this irrational level of thinking affects other aspects of performance, effectiveness and efficiency.
The primary tool for completing the financial statement and the P and L of business plans is the compound interest formula. The primary force of the formula is the exponent; next is the profit per cycle and third is the initial capital.
Therefore, the most significant trader transition, going full time, is determined by the approach to be used and not the initial capital. If the exponent is not sufficient that is the poorest condition to condend with; profit per trade is another important point of contention.
All readers feel that I am not addressing what is their most pressing considerations. They and I are using differing paradigms, basically. I do not use the betting paradigm; it can lead to conventional Sharpe ratios, drawdowns; risk of ruin; protection requirements and "money management" as conventionally described.
If a person turns toward measuring knowledge, skills and experience; performance; effectiveness; and efficiency against the potential of what the market offers, then a different business plan approach is required from him. This orientation to planning and operations is what leads to the possibility of considering levels of earnings per day as just milestones along an equity curve that is able to contain about any milestones imaginable as time passes.
If a personcan understand this, then they can plan for having a lifestyle at different ages that is what they want. Almost any life style is attainable at any age when the potential of the markets is the basis of reasoning. And there are capital leftovers as well that can be deployed as desired.
It will be difficult for those who are blocked and stuck to deal with this post. They make that decision, however.
Quote from Dustin:
But then again I am not even close to $5k/day.
Many ways to skin a cat whatever that means.
I have to apologize to everyone. My comment about being able to make $5,000 with a $20,000 account was not meant to show that I am a 7 figure trader. I am not. I will be!!
I was trying to get everyones attention by showing that a traders daily profitability goal is destructive. If I woke up each morning thinking that I should make 5,000 a day I would lose $10,000!! By focusing on the next trading opportunity, and forgetting about my last trade I am able to trade efficiently.
Quote from scalper21:
I have to apologize to everyone. My comment about being able to make $5,000 with a $20,000 account was not meant to show that I am a 7 figure trader. I am not. I will be!!
I was trying to get everyones attention by showing that a traders daily profitability goal is destructive. If I woke up each morning thinking that I should make 5,000 a day I would lose $10,000!! By focusing on the next trading opportunity, and forgetting about my last trade I am able to trade efficiently.
Hey scalper: Do u exit using a fixed target? I am just wondering how scalpers make money consistently. Do you put a stop of 1 point and a limit of 2 point? ie binary bets
Thanks in advance for sharing how scalping works
Quote from MTE:
Exactly! Averaging $5K a day means nothing without knowing the capital base.
$5K on a $10mil account is only about 14% p.a. compounded.
$5K on a $100K account is 323,010% p.a. compounded.
Spot the difference!? [/QUOte
that is the point of prop trading to make money off other people's money and not be big enough where you are one side of the market.
Do most people on ET trade full time or in addition to another job/business?
The starting point is intense investigation with a focus on turning points, ie exactly why and where do prices turn and how do they indicate their intention - regardless of the timeframe. It's a hunger, a thirst, that is shown when a post like this is started and the one who asks the question is the most frequent poster. Ask casually, and you'll get a nonchalant respone. One post doesn't cut it!
Quote from Nasdaq5048:
Hey scalper: Do u exit using a fixed target? I am just wondering how scalpers make money consistently. Do you put a stop of 1 point and a limit of 2 point? ie binary bets
Thanks in advance for sharing how scalping works
Scalper21 trading system brought to elite trading for no charge!!!
1)keep losers small--- this is done primarily two ways. One by exiting losers quickly. Second most of my losers are smaller quantity that my winning trades.
2)at the end of the day I should be profitable everyday. This is accomplished by trading actively. With extra activity I can rely on law of averages to be in my favor by the end of the day.
3)trade a contract that has intraday volatility which will allow for rule #2 to be accomplished. Currently ER2 is the contract of choice.
No I do not have a set price target for exits. I do not use charts. Well sometimes I will take a look at a chart on futuresource at night or before the market opens.
I like theidea about hiding your P&L from yourself. I think that I might try to do that. It does affect my trading.
Profit vs risk seems like a much better measure than percentage. Whiel my equity has goneup many multiples, my size hasn't. Part of this is I didn't really realize how much risk I was taking. (I was lucky that my account survived until I realized this.)
One of the big things that I have come across is that different days have different criterea for a good day or a "win." That number can very drastically. Days with a high profit potental might need 8 - 10 times as much profit to be a good day. On the other hand some days ending scratch or close to it, can be seemed as a victory. (Days where in the past would have been much bigger losers.)
With all of that said I do seem i find plateau's around significant (really shouldn't matter) numbers in my daily P&L.
Profit vs risk seems like a much better measure than percentage. Whiel my equity has goneup many multiples, my size hasn't. Part of this is I didn't really realize how much risk I was taking. (I was lucky that my account survived until I realized this.)
One of the big things that I have come across is that different days have different criterea for a good day or a "win." That number can very drastically. Days with a high profit potental might need 8 - 10 times as much profit to be a good day. On the other hand some days ending scratch or close to it, can be seemed as a victory. (Days where in the past would have been much bigger losers.)
With all of that said I do seem i find plateau's around significant (really shouldn't matter) numbers in my daily P&L.