For my Christians Friends

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Yannis:

...It's more like religious people vs atheists who do not even accept a moral code...

That's rather self-righteous, wouldn't you say? Someone who has to get his moral compass out of a book is about as genuine as a blond who gets her hair color out of a bottle.

Morality, in its simplest form, can be described as empathy. Behavior can be taught, but true empathy cannot be taught. You either have empathy or you do not (and possibly just fake it for appearances). You are either a sociopath or you are not. By way of an extreme example, pedophile priests are intimately familiar with the Bible and its moral code and yet they lack the empathy required to control their destructive impulses that have compromised the lives of others. Let me say it again: you either have empathy or you do not. That is the only moral code that matters. Fortunately, there is a penal code for everyone else.

 

[Yannis]

Quote from Thunderdog:

You intentionally miss my point. Science in all disciplines relies on a certain standard of evidence in order to advance understanding. The "evidence" offered by creationists is laughable by comparison. If science had succumbed to a theist's standard of evidence, then there would be no dermatologists, and your barber would be your dentist.

Please don't tell me what I "intentionally" missed, because this is not the place (and I am not the type) to start trading insults.

Theologians do not, and should not offer any evidence. Reading the Scriptures should not give you any "evidence." Religion is outside the realm of what current day science calls "evidence". You need evidence to learn how to build a chair, but not to learn to like Mozart. Al lot more than that, you experience deep faith in God for reasons that are way far greater (to you) than just simple little "evidence." My religious "evidence" is the trust I feel in God and His presence in my life, you can't "measure" that.

 

[I am...]

Quote from Thunderdog:

That's rather self-righteous, wouldn't you say? Someone who has to get his moral compass out of a book is about as genuine as a blond who gets her hair color out of a bottle.

Morality, in its simplest form, can be described as empathy. Behavior can be taught, but true empathy cannot be taught. You either have empathy or you do not (and possibly just fake it for appearances). You are either a sociopath or you are not.

True empathy sees only strength, which is the truth about anyone. Thus, the golden rule works only as each sees himself as strong. No moral code will ever fix what empathizes with weakness. The more weakness is emphasized, the more codes will arise in response to corresponding behavior, perpetuating destructive behavior with its emphasis. True empathy sees the strength of Christ in all, and so sees itself as strong. This takes a bit of faith. But it is the basis of all "faith healing".

Jesus

 

[Yannis]

Quote from Thunderdog:

That's rather self-righteous, wouldn't you say? Someone who has to get his moral compass out of a book is...

First, please read my whole sentence - I'm talking about both atheism and also lack of a moral compass at the same time.

Second, I'm not getting my faith out of a book, who ever said that? The Scriptures are the Cliff Notes, a reminder, a tape to be played when you have forgotten a detail of those events.

My faith comes from a direct connection with God, every day, in all aspects of my life. He has installed in me, as in all humans, that moral compass I mentioend before, as a tool to be used to find Him and know what He wants us to do.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Yannis:

...you experience deep faith in God for reasons that are way far greater (to you) than just simple little "evidence." My religious "evidence" is the trust I feel in God and His presence in my life, you can't "measure" that.

"Simple little evidence." There you go, true to form, denigrating the basis on which all human understanding has been formed ("simple little"), exactly how I described that it would be when you are not in dire need of something that only science can ameliorate. Did I call that one or what?

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Yannis:

...My faith comes from a direct connection with God, every day, in all aspects of my life. He has installed in me, as in all humans, that moral compass I mentioend before, as a tool to be used to find Him and know what He wants us to do.

No, He did not. Sociopaths characteristically lack empathy, therefore they cannot and do not have a moral compass. At best they have learned behavior. Looks like God screwed up with them, eh?

 

[Yannis]

Quote from Thunderdog:

"Simple little evidence." There you go, true to form, denigrating the basis on which all human understanding has been formed ("simple little"), exactly how I described that it would be when you are not in dire need of something that only science can ameliorate. Did I call that one or what?

I don't know what you are talking about. "All human understanding?" Who said that? "Evidence" in a logical sense, affects a very small part of our lives, the part that I call "fixing chairs." The big parts, those which have to do with who we are, what we like and not like, what we want to do next, who we love and why, etc etc, not to mention faith and the happiness that comes from it, has nothing to do with that "little evidence."

 

[Yannis]

Quote from Thunderdog:

No, He did not. Sociopaths characteristically lack empathy, therefore they cannot and do not have a moral compass. At best they have learned behavior. Looks like God screwed up with them, eh?

I am not sure how the whole system works. He gave us eyesight, but some are born blind. Is that analogous? Some little kids have an accident and lose they eyesight... is that a better example? There is no greater mystery than our struggle to understand, or feel through, His plan about life's happiness and suffering. You can discount it all if you wish, but that doesn't make it go away. You still have to answer the question, who created you (and life in general) and why?

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Yannis:

..."Evidence" in a logical sense, affects a very small part of our lives, the part that I call "fixing chairs." The big parts, those which have to do with who we are, what we like...

Fine. Then you may choose to "like" God, but when it comes to determining His existence, you have about as much basis to believe in His existence as you do in the existence of fairies. Aside, of course, from your "feelings."

 

[Yannis]

Quote from Thunderdog:

Fine. Then you may choose to "like" God, but when it comes to determining His existence, you have about as much basis to believe in His existence as you do in the existence of fairies. Aside, of course, from your "feelings."

Yes! Now you got it. It's my choice, that's all. That's why we all get so angry when others impose their own religion to those who don't want it.

Not that my choice has no repercussions, but it's my choice. Sort of like deciding to marry that gorgeous 22 years old girl, 31 years ago: best thing I ever did

Thanks for the discussion, Tdog, got to go, have a good one.