For my Christians Friends

[smilingsynic]

Quote from saico:

The Bible was written by men (more than 40), over a timeframe of several thousand years. In the end, that whole puzzle results into one completely perfect picture. That can only be done by a higher power, which is our God, who inspired these authors. As long as you guys are trying to explain the bible by human sense you will completely fail. That can't be done, just forget it! Open your hearts and give Jesus Christ a chance to come into your life and you will experience the truth of His word. Think about it, you guys can't do anything, that makes God love you any less, He is just waiting for you.

One complete picture?

No, not at all. The Bible is filled with contradictions and inaccuracies. And that conclusion is based on a lifetime of reading the Bible.

Take the Easter story for instance (ironically, the original subject of this thread). The accounts in the four gospels are contradictory to the point that it is impossible to put together one single account of Jesus' last days on earth, crutifixion, and resurrection.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from volente_00:

Tdog,

How can one be an atheist and still believe it is possible that there is a higher power ? Is that a new variation called a delusional atheist ?

How is it that you cannot bring yourself to read the man's ideas in his own words and can only deal with bite-sized portions regurgitated by your theist brethren who take great delight in either misquoting those with whom they disagree or quoting them out of context? Is it perhaps a congenital disorder on your part, or is it a well-honed defense mechanism that prevents you from seeing anything objectively that potentially threatens your views?

 

[Yannis]

Quote from smilingsynic:

...Take the Easter story for instance (ironically, the original subject of this thread). The accounts in the four gospels are contradictory to the point that it is impossible to put together one single account of Jesus' last days on earth, crutifixion, and resurrection.

I disagree, this is not at all correct. The four Gospels agree on all significant points, while still being four independent accounts, four different perspectives -- two of them individual and the other two composite perspectives. Any little differences (like was it the day before Passover that the Last Supper happened, or the distinction of "three days" vs "third day") can be easily explained if you consider that the two languages involved (Hebrew/Aramaic and Greek) had a very different way to account for time, etc etc. A great number of religious scholars have analyzed these texts over the past two millenia and agreed on this.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from volente_00:

Sounds exactly like science.

Except that you are living in a world where the product of science is ubiquitous. Did you know that the Arab world was at one time in the forefront of science and mathematics? If I am not mistaken, it was an Arab who had invented the Zero, which made calculation and mathematical manipulation possible. And it went from there. However, when religion overtook that part of the world in the form of Islam, the Arab world fell behind the scientific forefront, and look where it is today. It is amazing how progress can slow when people content themselves to attribute to God anything that they cannot readily and immediately understand. Whereas those who do not immediately attribute the unknown to the supernatural (God) tend to make forays into new territory of understanding and accomplishment.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from volente_00:

...The beauty of it all is you do not have to get caught up in man's account in order to believe in a higher power...

...or Pinocchio.

 

[Yannis]

Quote from Thunderdog:

...it was an Arab who had invented the Zero, which made calculation and mathematical manipulation possible...However, when religion overtook that part of the world in the form of Islam, the Arab world fell behind the scientific forefront, and look where it is today....

Actually, the Babylonians discovered the zero (perhaps got it from India) and it subsequently appeared in the texts of some Greek philosophers (via Egypt) although not in a very prominent position. The Arabs used it well as they depended more on "advanced" math (eg, Algebra) to navigate the deserts, while the Greeks and Romans just checked with the nearest Eastern Mediterranean island to figure out where they were. And, the Babylonians, Hindus, Egyptians et al were VERY religious! I am not a great friend of Islam, but, religion has nothing to do with science, doesn't stop it or push it (eg, "render unto Cesar what is Cesar's" in the Gospel.) Unfortunately, when powerful dictators take over they use hatever they can get their hands on to align everyone under their control. In the Middle Ages that was religion, in the 20th century that was communism, fear and greed is always there to be used, etc etc.

 

[Yannis]

Quote from Thunderdog:

...It is amazing how progress can slow when people content themselves to attribute to God anything that they cannot readily and immediately understand. Whereas those who do not immediately attribute the unknown to the supernatural (God) tend to make forays into new territory of understanding and accomplishment.

This is so biased and wrong, it amazes me. How many scientists worked hard at curing diseases and inventing better ways to grow crops just because of their faith and reliance on God? We don't "attribute the unknown" to God, we feel that God underlies everything, known and unknown. In other words, His presence is everywhere we are active, for everything we do. I am a scientist and a businessman - not to mention husband and father - nothing contradictory there, my faith enables me to be the best I can be in all that I do, that's all.

 

[Thunderdog]

Quote from Yannis:

Actually, the Babylonians discovered the zero...

I prefaced my comment with "If I am not mistaken." I guess I was mistaken. My apologies. However, I will stand by the remainder of my post.

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from DerekD:

Who the f*ck are you kidding? You're an arrogant prick who thinks he knows it all based on uncommunicable evidence. Evidence no one but yourself can feel, touch, taste, smell, hear.

Funny, that is a good description of yourself.

All this is, is an attempt to rile me up to have me produce evidence. Then you will bring out the standard skeptical hat, and deny everything - even though you know little about science or how the Universe even works or why you are here You are likely incapable of being objective. Or will put on a facade of this and wander back to the childish state of the modern "skeptic." Then other skeptics/atheists will chime in. And of course to prove things, they will cut and paste parts of other websites or sources, rather than speaking from their own research.

You are probably as much an atheist/whatever as I am a believer.

Tell you what. You explain in cogent terms the currently believed 11 dimensional space-time in cosmology, and how/where they exist and their nature, and I will address the much more complex thing of the Hebrew God's existence. But if you refuse, then I shall continue on my way, regardless of the baiting or other things. I am quite satisfied in what I see, and feel zero obligation to "prove" it. If you "know your Bible" then you should be quite aware that is constantly what followed Jesus everywhere he went. You should also be aware that the basic tenet of the New Testament is that even with convincing proof, no one would ever believe and be saved.

And yeah, I think YOU need to not only learn what an atheist is, but research its etymology and history.

I do not need to. I used to be an atheist. And an agnostic. And a skeptic. I have dialogued and debated much with on both sides of the aisle. After awhile, atheists/skeptics just seem to recycle the same thing over and over again.

Geez man, I mean really. Seriously. Tell me WHY you don't acknowledge Vishnu's existence? Or Zeus's? Or Tiki's? Or Elegua?

Lets' see, because you concluded them to be non-existent? That would make your POV concerning those gods the antithesis to their associated theism now wouldn't it?

You show me evidence, I will research it. Otherwise, you continue barking down a path of your own creation. Theist = believes in the existence of God. I do. Therefore i am not an atheist. You are stretching the definition and making it something it is not. I am amazed you keep pushing this.

Aww, what's the matter? Hate atheists that much do you?

You keep generating what you think other people are. I used to be an atheist. And an agnostic. And a skeptic. I have dialogued and debated much with them. After awhile, they just seem to recycle the same thing over and over again.

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from TraderZones:

Quote from DerekD:

Who the f*ck are you kidding? You're an arrogant prick who thinks he knows it all based on uncommunicable evidence. Evidence no one but yourself can feel, touch, taste, smell, hear.

Funny, that is a good description of yourself.

All this is, is an attempt to rile me up to have me produce evidence. Then you will bring out the standard skeptical hat, and deny everything - even though you know little about science or how the Universe even works or why you are here You are likely incapable of being objective. Or will put on a facade of this and wander back to the childish state of the modern "skeptic." Then other skeptics/atheists will chime in. And of course to prove things, they will cut and paste parts of other websites or sources, rather than speaking from their own research.

You are probably as much an atheist/whatever as I am a believer.

Tell you what. You explain in cogent terms the currently believed 11 dimensional space-time in cosmology, and how/where they exist and their nature - not just something you looked up, and I will address the much more complex thing of the Hebrew God's existence. But if you refuse, then I shall continue on my way, regardless of the baiting or other things. I am quite satisfied in what I see, and feel zero obligation to "prove" it. If you "know your Bible" then you should be quite aware that is constantly what followed Jesus everywhere he went. You should also be aware that the basic tenet of the New Testament is that even with convincing proof, no one would ever believe and be saved.

And yeah, I think YOU need to not only learn what an atheist is, but research its etymology and history.

I do not need to. I used to be an atheist. And an agnostic. And a skeptic. I have dialogued and debated much with on both sides of the aisle. After awhile, atheists/skeptics just seem to recycle the same thing over and over again.

Geez man, I mean really. Seriously. Tell me WHY you don't acknowledge Vishnu's existence? Or Zeus's? Or Tiki's? Or Elegua?

Lets' see, because you concluded them to be non-existent? That would make your POV concerning those gods the antithesis to their associated theism now wouldn't it?

You show me evidence, I will research it. Otherwise, you continue barking down a path of your own creation. Theist = believes in the existence of God. I do. Therefore i am not an atheist. You are stretching the definition and making it something it is not. I am amazed you keep pushing this.

Aww, what's the matter? Hate atheists that much do you?

You keep generating what you think other people are. I used to be an atheist. And an agnostic. And a skeptic. I have dialogued and debated much with them. After awhile, they just seem to recycle the same thing over and over again.