For my Christians Friends

[volente_00]

Quote from smilingsynic:

Science is empirically testable; God's existence is not.

The fossil evidence refutes the Genesis creation account. The history of life on this planet is easily explained by natural processes.

However, one may believe in God's existence nonetheless, even though there is no evidence for scuh.

Could it be possible that science has not come up with the right machine that actually shows proof of God ?




Another point is science is only as good as the people who make it up.


How many scientist use to say the world was flat ?

Then they change their minds and it is round.

This shows 2 things, all those who placed FAITH in them believed something that was not true and that science can be dead wrong.

 

[TraderZones]

Quote from smilingsynic:

Science is empirically testable; God's existence is not.

Science is empirically constantly modified. It cannot rest, because it is constantly found incomplete.

Your assertion that God's existence is not testable is your belief.

The problem is, that under test, you must, as a member of darkness, reject any and all evidence, because you are incapable of grasping anything outside your terrible limited, mortal existence.

You must say "No" as a knee-jerk instinct. You will hate this response, but it is actually quite correct and quite scriptural.

The fossil evidence refutes the Genesis creation account.

No, the fossil evidence refutes the widely held beliefs of Christians who try to interpret Genesis.

Not all of us cling to the concept that the Earth was created in 4004 BC. And some of us interpret Genesis as theistic evolutionists and have no problem with an earth > 4.55 BYA or Big Bang > 13 BYA.

The history of life on this planet is easily explained by natural processes.

Portions of the history of life are easily explained. You keep throwing up things that you yourself are obviously no scholar of. Most things bedevil us. At last count, we are now up to a quaternary view of what extinguished the dinosaurs.

We are still mystified how life arose, or what happened prior to the development of hard body remains. Outside a couple of spots, such as a fortuitous undersea "landslide" in British Columbia, the remains of creatures prior to about 600 million years are almost completely non represented in the fossil record, save for stromatalites and worm tracks.

However, one may believe in God's existence nonetheless, even though there is no evidence for scuh.

I doubt you ever did a serious and objective search on evidence and the existence of God.

One may beleive in the nonexistence of God, even though there is no evidence for such.

Based on most of your other quotes, you speak from your understanding of the work of others; you do it rather amateurishly.

 

[nyxtrader]

Quote from DerekD:

Why would a non-believer be scared of such a wonderful notion such as salvation? That doesn't make any sense. Doesn't salvation and forgiveness go hand-in-hand? What kind of lives do you think non-believers live? I find them in many respects but not across the board, to be more "moral" than those who consider themselves to be saved.

Non-believers know that should the bible be true, they will spend an eternity in hell. But...

To be frank, believers don't realize that should they have "chosen" to believe the wrong religion (assuming one might be true) or wrong doctrine based on a particular religion (sect or denomination) they too will spend an eternity in hell.

So really, what's your opinion worth without justification and proof?

Why would they be scared? Let me explain.
This day and age people want instant gratification, Christianity doesn't work that way. People these days rely on tangible things; money, clothes, cars, etc. You get the point. Most people won't jump up and down when you express that you are a Christian, as it appears non glamorous so to speak.

I find them in many respects but not across the board, to be more "moral" than those who consider themselves to be saved.

To address the above statement, most people you run into on the street are Catholic. I grew up Catholic and I learned they are the so far from being a Christian. I really don't want to get into right now.
Catholics believe, the end justifies the means. Good deeds will get you into heaven and this couldn't be farther from the truth.

Proof? Let me say this, show me proof good doesn't exist..

Religion is soley based on faith. I am a believer and there is nothing you could do to change my view point.

 

[volente_00]

Quote from bigarrow:

From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism
1. the doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.

Another definition from websters online
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/atheism
Atheism
Noun
1. The doctrine or belief that there is no God.
2. A lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Maybe your definition of atheism is from an old dictionary.
I can't find my Websters from way back in my college days but when I do I'll look it up and see what the definition for atheism was in the 70's.

Religion

a cause, principle, or system of BELIEFS held to with ardor and faith



Atheism

1. The doctrine or BELIEF that there is no God.
2. A lack of BELIEF in the existence of God or gods.



Atheists place FAITH in science about their BELIEFS.

 

[volente_00]

Quote from DerekD:

Atheists do not assert non-existence. They conclude non-existence. In a way, an atheist is agnostic in that should those who assert existence, prove existence, both the atheist and agnostic will embrace existence.

It's really that simple.

Could oxygen be seen before a STM was invented? No, not with the naked eye. But experiments were done long ago which, while not as yet seen, proved the existence of oxygen.

See the difference?

They don't assert ?

assert:

To state or express positively; affirm

To defend or maintain


This thread was started by a christian and then atheist jumped in asserting their BELIEFS about non existence of God.



Every response on here from an atheist is about them asserting their BELIEF in non existence of God


Strong atheism is the position that a god or gods do not exist. The strong atheist explicitly asserts God's non-existence.

 

[volente_00]

Quote from traderNik:

You're asking for rational analysis from someone who has no need to examine facts. Objective facts are not necessary when all knowledge is received from God.

History shows us in no uncertain terms that religious zealots are the most immoral people who ever lived.

nyxtrader said above that he pities all those who haven't accepted Jesus Christ into their lives as their saviour. Notice he did not say Allah or the Buddha.

If you ask a radical Christian why it is that he thinks his particular version of the God story is any more true than others, and why someone in Timbuktu should accept the Western version of the God story (including the whole 'Jesus Christ as Son of God' thing) his eyes will glaze over, he'll stutter a few times and then start quoting scripture.

nyxtrader's comments are a great example of why Christianity is a stagnant religion. That, combined with the fact that its leaders tend to be caught out in morality busts. Hmmm... I wonder why that is?

Stagnant ? Christians have been persecuted in every country and yet through it all, their BELIEFS and the bible still stand the test of time. Why is that ?

 

[DerekD]

Quote from volente_00:

They don't assert ?

assert:

To state or express positively; affirm

To defend or maintain


This thread was started by a christian and then atheist jumped in asserting their BELIEFS about non existence of God.


Every response on here from an atheist is about them asserting their BELIEF in non existence of God

It's impossible to assert non-existence. One can only conclude non-existence.

You can't run around stating, "prove there is no God!" That's asinine. One cannot prove a negative. Therefore, one cannot assert a negative.

Theists assert that there is a God, yet offer no proof which would distinctly be ascribed to God and no some other thing. Without this proof, atheists conclude that there is no God.

It's that simple.

There is no such thing as a belief that there is no God. That's the most foolish and incredibly asinine statement. However, if there is a God and it's proven to exist, anyone running around stating that there is no God would be foolishly deluding themselves and would be stating their belief regardless of the evidence and proof to the contrary.

 

[DerekD]

Quote from nyxtrader:

Why would they be scared? Let me explain.
This day and age people want instant gratification, Christianity doesn't work that way. People these days rely on tangible things; money, clothes, cars, etc. You get the point. Most people won't jump up and down when you express that you are a Christian, as it appears non glamorous so to speak.

I find them in many respects but not across the board, to be more "moral" than those who consider themselves to be saved.

To address the above statement, most people you run into on the street are Catholic. I grew up Catholic and I learned they are the so far from being a Christian. I really don't want to get into right now.
Catholics believe, the end justifies the means. Good deeds will get you into heaven and this couldn't be farther from the truth.

Proof? Let me say this, show me proof good doesn't exist..

Religion is soley based on faith. I am a believer and there is nothing you could do to change my view point.

I'm not interested in changing your viewpoint. It's immaterial to me. If you change it or keep it, that's your business and right.

But you still not have addressed the question as to why one would be afraid of salvation.

The fact that people today, as well as from times past. rely on tangible things has no bearing on salvation. Unless they have to relinquish those things in order to be saved. Surely that's not the case.

You seem confused about your own religion. First, for someone to even desire to be saved, they have to know that they need saving. Proof that the Christian God is the God considering all the other gods currently and from times past would go a long way towards that end. Just saying, "Jesus loves you and died for you sins and if you don't accept Him you're going to Hell." doesn't engender that desire. Might evoke fear. But to a rational mind, this God seems like a petulant child. "If you don't love me, I'll hate you and kill you for not loving and embracing me."

Something fishy about that paradigm, no? It's even reminiscent of how dictators run their game.

The other problem is how to determine if one's belief in this paradigm is genuine? Would a fear motived "belief" be good enough? What about a hedging faith like Pascal's wager? What about a questioning faith? What about believing in a certain doctrine like Catholicism or Lutheranism or pentacostalism or Calvinism, ect, all of which in essence depict a distinctly different God?

Who's right? They all can't be if you know the doctrines of each sect.

Considering the importance that the Christian paradigm places on salvation, wouldn't a rigid set of standards have been made?

So if there is a fear of salvation, as you allege, it would be that one would adopt the wrong Christian sub-doctrine and be damned anyway. In a word - no assurance. Just a lot of double talk and intra-denominational contradiction.

Don't you think the Catholics think they are right and you are wrong - bound for hell for your heresy as you think of them?

 

[DerekD]

Quote from volente_00:

Stagnant ? Christians have been persecuted in every country and yet through it all, their BELIEFS and the bible still stand the test of time. Why is that ?

Yet they continue to divide themselves on doctrinal issues. So much so, one group swears the other isn't Christian.

Why has it stood the test of time? Well don't get so high on that idea. Christianity is only 2000 years old. Judaism is 4000 years old. There are religions that are older than that and still exist today. Such as hinduism and Jainism. Paganism, which still exists today is oldest of all.

So why have these stood the test of time?

 

[bigarrow]

Quote from volente_00:

Religion

a cause, principle, or system of BELIEFS held to with ardor and faith



Atheism

1. The doctrine or BELIEF that there is no God.
2. A lack of BELIEF in the existence of God or gods.



Atheists place FAITH in science about their BELIEFS.

Don't know what your trying to get at but your not doing a very good job of it, sounds like typical religious double speak, like an old Saturday night live skit.
This atheist has never seen any proof of the invisible man so thus does not believe in the invisible man, or bigfoot or werewolfs, vampires, time travelers, etc. I have also read the bible and noted the scores of conflicting statements, lies and examples of a vicious, murderous, jealous, shallow but "loving god" and concluded that the book is rubbish and chose not to believe in rubbish let alone waste my time reading it over and over again. I haven't read the koran sp? but your talking about the bible right, you probably agree we me on the koran and all other religious writings that they are rubbish and idiotic and only for the weak and gullible. You are living a life based on a book, a book man, wake up. Really how can a man plan out their whole existence based on an old book? That is bizarre. But hey at least you modern christians are a hell of a lot better than the modern muslims. The muslims actually believe the old testament type stuff like killing the non believers and act on it.