First time I've ever cracked up laughing in the voting booth...

Quote from neophyte321:

what was your position on the Teri Schiavo case.

It's a bit transparent of you to bring up gun-related suicide rates


Guns are used for sport. Target practice, the biathalon , etc ... If you consider shooting pheasants murder, then ... you are, indeed, a girly-man ..
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You can't win the debate (guns are for self-defense). So you're changing the subject.

Do you agree then, that "gun for self-defense" argument is crap?

I agree fully with hunting - I think hunting is one of the best sports. But anyone who insists that they need machine guns for hunting is an idiot, and a "girly-man."
 
Quote from james_bond_3rd:

Wrong and wrong.

The only purpose of a gun is to kill. How do you suppose to use a gun in self-defense? Wave it at the bad guy but not shoot?

Suicide is the #1 cause of gun related deaths. In 1999, 58% of all gun deaths were suicides, and 38% were homicides. In 2003, those percentages were 56% suicides, 40% homicides. So the most use for guns is not for self-defense, it's for self-killing.

Any sane person would know that it's much harder to kill with a knife than with a gun. "Just as many people killed?" Nonsense. According to this study,
http://www.unicri.it/wwk/publications/books/series/understanding/19_GUN_OWNERSHIP.pdf
the level of gun ownership world-wide is directly correlated to murder and suicide rates, with a very high degree of statistical confidence.

Gunshot wound deaths is behind traffic related deaths as second leading cause of injury death. Also, although suicides and homicides account for over 96% of all gunshot related deaths, about 20% of gunshot related injuries treated in hospital emergency departments in the United States are unintentional.

People have a tendency to shoot themselves in the foot.
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Like I said before, just the sight of a gun prevents 2.5 million crimes per year. The criminal only needs to see that the potential victim has a gun, then the crim backs off. Very rarely does the victim need to fire the gun. Even more crime is prevented because the criminals think the victim might have a gun, let alone see it.

Why not allow someone to protect their home and family from an intruder? Why allow a criminal to do whatever he wants to a family?

Suicide. Take their choice of using a gun away, why would they not use something else?

Why not focus on the reasons for murder and suicide instead of the method used? There are all kinds of alternative choices that a criminal or suicide victim could use instead of a gun.

Why aren't those that are committing suicide receiving proper help?

The criminals are having a behavioral problem. Is anyone doing anything about it, or is too much effort involved?
 
Quote from FightTheFuture:

Like I said before, just the sight of a gun prevents 2.5 million crimes per year. The criminal only needs to see that the potential victim has a gun, then the crim backs off. Very rarely does the victim need to fire the gun. Even more crime is prevented because the criminals think the victim might have a gun, let alone see it.

Why not allow someone to protect their home and family from an intruder? Why allow a criminal to do whatever he wants to a family?

Suicide. Take their choice of using a gun away, why would they not use something else?

Why not focus on the reasons for murder and suicide instead of the method used? There are all kinds of alternative choices that a criminal or suicide victim could use instead of a gun.

Why aren't those that are committing suicide receiving proper help?

The criminals are having a behavioral problem. Is anyone doing anything about it, or is too much effort involved?
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First, whether or not you need to fire the arm, it is the implicit threat of using it that scares off the bad guys. Without that threat, guns are useless.

Suicide is actually pretty hard. There is a psychological block that prevent most people from voluntarily jumping off a high building. Two things have relatively low psychological barrier, overdose of drugs and guns. These are facts. Whatever you want to do with them, the facts cannot be denied.

All other questions are very reasonable. Just be careful though. Discussing these questions run the risk of being called a "girly-man."

Real man just shoots the criminals. He is never worried about their "behavioral problems."
 
Quote from james_bond_3rd:

You really have a thick skull. It only worked because of the implicit threat to kill. If "waving" it works just fine, why not wave a flag?

Interesting how you chopped off the end of "waving it but not shoot" to distort my post. Even you know that by not threatening to shoot, your gun is useless.
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So what's your point? Are you a moron or something?

My sister didn't 'point' it at anybody, just showed it. And of course the threat to use it is implied.....

But your one of your previous posts asked the question of whether or not 'waving' a gun was an effective form of self defense.And I showed your ignorance once again by giving you an example that YOU HAD JUST READ where 'waving', indeed, worked just fine.

It looks like the ignorant always assume that the only way a gun works is to actually shoot someone with it.

Do you see yet how wrong you are in that assumption? Again, educate yourself a little about BOTH sides of the arguement before you weigh in with an opinion. To do otherwise just shows how thick you are....
 
Quote from james_bond_3rd:

You can't win the debate (guns are for self-defense). So you're changing the subject.

Do you agree then, that "gun for self-defense" argument is crap?

I agree fully with hunting - I think hunting is one of the best sports. But anyone who insists that they need machine guns for hunting is an idiot, and a "girly-man."
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I have no need to fear for my personal safety, if I did, I might rely on a gun.

But that really isn't even the topic of this thread. It was the "For the Children" emotional plea to ban all "military style weapons" in the proposition on the ballot. Do I believe in pulling such ludicrous stunts to win a vote, no.

Machine guns are used for recreational purposes also, there is no other use for them. ... I really don't hear of many incidents where they are involved, besides the extremely rare cases when Rosie O'Donald shows up on the scene, so they really cause me no real concern. In my opinion, buying a machine and these types of weapons should be 5x more difficult than getting a driver's license, (which I think it is. If not, it should be, IMHO)

Millions of men head to woods each year, armed to the teeth with weaponry. Somehow, all these guys armed with the lastest rocketry manage to do their thing without resulting in widespread gun battles.

people kill people...
 
Quote from neophyte321:

Millions of men head to woods each year, armed to the teeth with weaponry. Somehow, all these guys armed with the lastest rocketry manage to do their thing without resulting in widespread gun battles.
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Just don't go with Cheney. :D Luckily, he had a 28-gauge shotgun, not a machine gun.
 
Quote from Thunderdog:

Oh, how I love the irony.
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What irony?

JB3's position seems to be that there is little or no reward to the risk/reward relationship in allowing guns in society. Or at the very least his position is that the risk far outweighs the rewards.

LIFE is all about risk/reward. What you do or don't do has its' positives and negatives and each individual weighs them according to his/her standards.

But what about the fact stated in another's post that guns are used in self defense 200+ times more than for the commission of a crime? Are the both of you ignoring that fact because it goes against your belief that guns are just bad, and then claim to have a morally superior position?. THAT'S irony for you.....

I'm talking about a real life situation here - my sister - not some hypothetical situation that some dipshit dreams up. And that's the main difference between you and I. I look at the real world and see what works, and do THAT.
 
Quote from Haroki:

What irony?
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Oh, look! There it is again. Priceless.
:D

(Sorry, hombre, we are not going to agree on this, so I may as well have some fun at your expense. But that's ok, you can handle it. You're armed, locked and loaded.)
 
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