firm a fake?

Originally posted by NDQnCA



that deal is crap- check out bright or echo- much lower rates
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This guy could trade cheaper at Datek or some other online broker. LOL.

Per-Ticket Minimum on options of $20? Yeah, maybe for Multi-Legged Orders. You better be one hell of a trader if you are going to overcome the hurdles this commission structure throws up.
 
Hi, I appreciate your input, a couple of the posts dont take into account that I will probably be trading quite a few options, I already spoke with Cash Coyne as far as remote setups with Bright, and it sounded ok, except for Bright's option setup. Bright actually discourages option trading, which wont work for me, otherwise I would probably be there trading already. Right now I am running a retail account through the Thinkorswim platform which really is everything I could hope for in a streaming real time option setup, the only thing that isn't there is the leverage. minimum single leg ticket charge on my account so far has been $3, I kind of thought $20 was a bit high.

Even though ETG kind of has a questionable reputation on this site (check the archives) so far they have been the most knowledgeable about the strategies I would like to employ, I am still speaking with them. Most firms do not want to take on an options trader. Sounds like so far that they welcome option traders, just watch you closely in the beginning. Fairly common I believe.

Also working with NT securities, found them on Monster. they seem pretty good, streaming level II options, I am not thrilled with the LLC agreement, and no taking part in losses at all.

I am feeling a bit burnt on the Innovative subject. and obviously now my taste is tainted., So should I expect then that at those rates I should not be paying ECN fees, or even without those fees should I still get lower rates?

Tradestation advertises .0075 for retail, just the leverage isn't there. There are some beautiful setups at some of the retails, just not the leverage and options capability. What next?
 
I just don't see how a minimum ticket charge of $20.00 is going to make or break a trader when they should be doing a minimum of 10-20 contracts to begin with.... I'm sorry, I just don't see the big issue here.

And, you can mention TradeStation all you want regarding their per share fees . . . Yet, they don't offer any leverage beyond the 50% margin at 4.75% interest cost, and you need to do something like 250,000 shares of trading for the month in order to get the data-feed and software platform feed rebated back to you, which I believe runs something like $110.00 per month, including NASDAQ Level 2 quotes.

As far as Bright is concerned, am I mistaken, or do you only get the $400 monthly desk fee rebated at the END OF THE YEAR???

It's amazing how people are continually trying to compare "apples and oranges" on this thread. Leverage is leverage. Stop comparing non-leverage commission deals with leveraged commission deals. It just doesn't make any sense.
Enough said.

Besides, if you are "swing-trading", which I believe you are "POSEMETUDE", I just don't see the issue here.
I really don't!
 
I can only vouch for my experience with Innovative. I'm a happy customer of theirs and they are not a 'fake' as I said in my earlier post.

What kind of deal you may get depends on your style, volume, capitalization, record, etc. so take all of that into consideration.

I've noticed these boards are, let's say, politically charged and I personally don't think Innovative has had a fair shake here. Give these guys a chance people!
 
Originally posted by POSMENTUDE
Hi, I appreciate your input, a couple of the posts dont take into account that I will probably be trading quite a few options, I already spoke with Cash Coyne as far as remote setups with Bright, and it sounded ok, except for Bright's option setup. Bright actually discourages option trading, which wont work for me, otherwise I would probably be there trading already. Right now I am running a retail account through the Thinkorswim platform which really is everything I could hope for in a streaming real time option setup, the only thing that isn't there is the leverage. minimum single leg ticket charge on my account so far has been $3, I kind of thought $20 was a bit high.

Even though ETG kind of has a questionable reputation on this site (check the archives) so far they have been the most knowledgeable about the strategies I would like to employ, I am still speaking with them. Most firms do not want to take on an options trader. Sounds like so far that they welcome option traders, just watch you closely in the beginning. Fairly common I believe.

Also working with NT securities, found them on Monster. they seem pretty good, streaming level II options, I am not thrilled with the LLC agreement, and no taking part in losses at all.

I am feeling a bit burnt on the Innovative subject. and obviously now my taste is tainted., So should I expect then that at those rates I should not be paying ECN fees, or even without those fees should I still get lower rates?

Tradestation advertises .0075 for retail, just the leverage isn't there. There are some beautiful setups at some of the retails, just not the leverage and options capability. What next?
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Please realize that my brother and I spent over a decade on the Options Trading floors ((PSE and CBOE) (we're still members). It's just that since we offer use of capital to trade the underlying, and we are confident that the "Blair Hulls" (and others) of the World, keep the options right in line to fair value, that there is little "edge" off of the trading floor. Options are meant to be sold, and you can sell them much more easily when in a Pit with paper flow.......

I just wanted to explain our reasoning...it makes more sense to us to have our people trade the bigger edge. But, trading is trading, and I wish you all the best wherever you end up.

Don
 
Hey Don, I know this has been beat to death, but let me hear you tell Lawrence McMillan that there is no money to be made off the floor trading options. I have been making money for years trading options off the floor but it requires some patience and a different strategy, and yes, it includes being a net seller. Scalping or day trading in and out of options positions I would agree with you is not a good strategy off the floor, but it also is not the only strategy.

I am looking for a chance to bring my proven strategies to a leveraged situation, up to the next level so to speak.

Tell "BONE" he cant make money off the floor trading options also, I am sure he will love that. Isn't there also some guy that trades options remotely from an island somewhere that makes a killing also and posts to these boards?
 
Originally posted by POSMENTUDE
Hey Don, I know this has been beat to death, but let me hear you tell Lawrence McMillan that there is no money to be made off the floor trading options. I have been making money for years trading options off the floor but it requires some patience and a different strategy, and yes, it includes being a net seller. Scalping or day trading in and out of options positions I would agree with you is not a good strategy off the floor, but it also is not the only strategy.

I am looking for a chance to bring my proven strategies to a leveraged situation, up to the next level so to speak.

Tell "BONE" he cant make money off the floor trading options also, I am sure he will love that. Isn't there also some guy that trades options remotely from an island somewhere that makes a killing also and posts to these boards?
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I've spoken to Larry several times about the options markets as of late (and always recommend his first book to our college classes), and sure, some can make money, as in all things...it's just a lot more difficult than it used to be. I usually ask that people simply price the 3 way conversions (buy stock, buy put, sell call), and you will see that all are within a few pennies of current interest rate/fair value.

Enjoy yourself.....and as I've said before " ....Options have been very, very, good to me"....and I'm glad to see that the same things we were doing in the 70's and 80's are coming back into vogue again (straddles, strangles, boxes, calendar spreads, money spreads, butterflies, synthetics, cross market hedging, all the usual stuff)....kind of makes me feel that all this is new, and it is to those who weren't around back then.

I appreciate your "alias" and realize that a positive attitude is important to any type of trading....so you're ahead of the game....

Best of luck!!

Don (please let us know where you find a trading home, and how things pan out for you!!)
 
BELOW IS POSTED TWO PRIVATE MESSAGES WAGGIE SENT ME WHICH TO ME SEEMS AS IF HE/SHE OWNS STOCK IN INNOVATIVE OR OBVIOUSLY WORKS THERE: MY RESPONSES THROUGHOUT WILL BE MARKED BY ** ON EITHER SIDE, IN THE DAYTRADER DAVE STYLE FOR YOUR PERUSAL:

FIRST PRIVATE MAIL THAT WAGGIE SENT ME TODAY:

Re: Innovative Traders . . .
I have chosen to Private Message you regarding Innovative because I don't enjoy getting into "pissing-matches" on the message board since this thread appears to be extremely biased and political, and I wish to be professional in the way that I conduct myself.

As I said before, you don't appear to be making any realistic "headway" with Innovative, so why not just stop communicating with them???

*I don't COMMUNICATE WITH THEM, THEY CONTINUE TO CALL ME AND EMAIL ME AND I AM HOPING THAT SOON THEY THROW ME A DEAL WITH SOME SERIOUS LEVERAGE AND DECENT COMMISSIONS*

*WE ARE ALL BIASED AND POLITICAL AND OUT TO GET WAGGIE WHO SHOULD JUST ADMIT HE PAID TOO MUCH AND IS STUCK IN A BAD DEAL*

SECOND PRIVATE MAIL WAGGIE SENT ME TODAY:

Re: Innovative Traders - Part #2

P.S.

You have no idea what kind of a "generous deal" that I have with Innovative, so please don't tell me that I am paying them a lot of money for their services. *IF WE ALL ARE OUT TO HELP EACH OTHER WHY NOT SHARE YOUR OH SO GENEROUS DEAL WITH US? I AM SURE THEY ARRANGED YOUR DEAL OUT OF THE GOODNESS OF their HEART AND AREN'T MAKING ANY MONEY OFF YOU.*

I find it rather unprofessional that you would "post" their rates and commissions on this thread to the public . . . As a result, I have not divulged my deal to you because I am afraid that you would simply post it on the board for everyone to see, and it really is not anyone else's business! You don't really no much about discretion, do you? *THERE ARE RATES AND COMMISSIONS ALL OVER THESE BOARDS, AND IF SOME TRADER OUT THERE IS PAYING EVEN WORSE RATES THAN I SHARED FROM INNOVATIVE THEY WOULD FLOCK TO INNOVATIVE IN A SECOND. IF YOU AREN'T embarrassed ABOUT YOUR DEAL WHY wouldn't YOU POST IT? THERE IS NOTHING IN their LEGAL AGREEMENTS ABOUT SHARING their PROPOSED DEAL. IT'S NOT EVERYONE ELSE'S BUSINESS HUH? WHY WOULD YOU HOARD YOUR DEAL? ITS NOT AS IF ONCE YOU SHARE IT WITH OTHER TRADERS INNOVATIVE WILL TAKE IT AWAY FROM YOU. AS FAR AS PROFESSIONALISM AND DISCRETION AND EXPERIENCE LETS JUST SAY THIS: WITH THE LICENSES YOU KEEP TOUTING IN YOUR POSTS AND PRIVATE MAILS, THE BEST YOU COULD EVER DO IS WORK FOR ME, SO COOL IT.

The fact of the matter is that Innovative looks at your qualifications to handle the leverage that they offer. Your deal cannot be compared to my deal, or anyone else's for that matter etc., because we obviously have different levels of experience, etc. *EXACTLY MY POINT, THEY SHOULD LOOK AT MY EXPERIENCE AND QUALIFICATIONS AND MY DEAL SHOULD BLOW YOUR DEAL OUT OF THE WATER MY FRIEND, I ONLY HOPE AFTER HEARING THE FEEDBACK FROM THE BOARD ABOUT THE DEAL THEY offered ME THAT YOU didn't ACCEPT SOMETHING WORSE FROM THEM, ONLY BECAUSE I AM A NICE GUY. EVERY FIRM SO FAR HAS offered ME 10:1 WITH NO LOSSES TO THE FIRM ON THE INITIAL OFFER, THAT IS NOTHING SPECIAL.*

To go on and post the deal that they offered you is not very discreet, in my mind. It is highly unprofessional, and downright cheesy. *UNLESS YOU WORK FOR THEM WHY wouldn't YOU WANT TO KNOW IF YOU WERE GETTING THE BEST DEAL YOU COULD FROM THEM? WHY SHOULD I BE DISCREET? LIKE RIPPING ME OFF ON THE RATES THEY OFFER IS PROFESSIONAL? POSTING OF THE RATES THEY offered ME HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PROFESSIONALISM.*

Let me ask you something:

When you go out and buy a home, do you post your credit and mortgage report information on a message board too, for everyone to see? *THIS IS A TERRIBLE EXAMPLE TO PROVE A POINT, OBVIOUSLY USED BY DUNCE, BUT I WILL USE IT NONETHELESS. NO, I don't POST MY CREDIT AND MORTGAGE REPORT FOR EVERYONE TO SEE, BUT YOU BET YOUR ASS I WOULD POST THE REPUTATION OF THE FIRM, THE INTEREST RATE, AND POINTS/CLOSING COSTS UP FRONT*

I didn't think so.*SELF righteous BULLSHITTER WITHOUT A CLUE*



:confused: :confused: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :D :D
 
I just don't see where it looks like waggie works or owns stock in that firm from what you posted, to me it sounds like he got a deal with them and appear to be happy with it. All he really said to you was, if you don't like their deal move on.

And what did you do. After he expressed to you that he didn't want to get into it with you on a public message board you show really poor taste and post his private messages to you on the public forum anyway?

There was no need for that.

Would someone who did get a deal from this firm post what kind of setup they got? Did you go trade in an office somewhere or remote? Were you set up with twin monitors, what kind of software? If you are stuck in a trade who do you call? Who do your trades clear through?

W.M.
 
When I visited them about seven or eight months ago in the Seattle area (Bellevue), one of the locations was running two 14 inch monitors, with P-III, none clocking over 1GHZ, and RAM, I'm guessing 128mb, but not sure. Hopefully they've upgraded... when I saw the setup at the time, I couldn't help but ask are you upgrading anytime soon, and the answer was no, they office doesn't generate enough cash flow for that expenditure, but the office was huge and empty. But I know that they were supposed to move and merge with a firm on the Eastside, so hopefully they had better equipment.

On the multi-software use issue, Innovative does have a few but its not as fantastic as they make it out to be. Real-Tick, pretty much anyone can have as long as you pay the fees and per ticket charges, REDI same thing, and some firms like ECHO allow you to use both, or even bring in your own stuff. I've had Real-Tick, Tradecast, and Tradestation running on three 21 inch monitors at an office once, and the office handled all costs. Tradestation I used for program alerts, Real-Tick for charting tick by tick and Tradecast for execution, and you can replace Tradecast with any other execution platform out there.

I believe that they can offer you all these platforms b/c most of the office that they deal with are the independent firms or smaller firms, so they can setup you up with all the different software options based on the firms they work with. Since they're the middleman, they don't really have to worry to much about total share volume generated, except for their kickbacks.
 
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