Finland considers a universal basic income for all citizens

[ETcallhome]

Pay people to do nothing and what do they think they will get more of?

-burn8

well for one thing, they won't be penalized like food stamps, and welfare and sec 8 housing does if you go out and try to make some extra money. People will no longer need full time jobs with benefits. Good for small business who just wants to hire to cover the rush.

 

[d08]

well, unlike you I don't speak Finnish and have never even been there. So you might have more insight. though we could agree on that someone can't make a decent living on 800 EUR in Finland?

Absolutely, 800€ is far from enough to make a decent living or to even survive (unless you live in your own cabin in the woods and hunt for food). But two people living together for a combined 1600€, that's entirely doable, albeit affording you no luxuries.

 

[ETcallhome]

Absolutely, 800€ is far from enough to make a decent living or to even survive (unless you live in your own cabin in the woods and hunt for food). But two people living together for a combined 1600€, that's entirely doable, albeit affording you no luxuries.

yes, and if you want to get into social engineering, unlike the current welfare system which encourages mothers to stay single, under the new system you would need a partner (or at least a partner could help share expenses.)

keep in mind, yes there are a few lazy bums, but many people live poor because they are poets, musicians and artists. If you feel that non commercial artists (who make bad employees) add anything of value to a society this would help.

I'm just waiting for the book "How I Made a Million in the Finnish Stock Market on 800 a Month"

 

[piezoe]

the problem with trying to get wealth to redistribute upward is the same as getting water to flow upward. Yes, it can be done, but it takes a lot of pumps and things. Water naturally flows downward, but unlike water money doesn't come from heaven. And somebody needs to go down their and collect it and pump it upstairs, and then they dump it once again on all the poor. So, it's a cycle, rather than an ideal.

and just like if we had control of the weather, somebody would always be debating when it is time to let it rain.

Will Rogers didn't agree with you. Mr. Hoover didn't know that money trickled up. Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it before night, anyhow.

 

[ETcallhome]

Will Rogers didn't agree with you. Mr. Hoover didn't know that money trickled up. Give it to the people at the bottom and the people at the top will have it before night, anyhow.

that's exactly my point, as a matter of fact he was the one who got me thinking about it many years ago. It's like dumping water on the ground. Somebody has to collect all that water and pump it back up to the rich so they can dump it on the poor again. But to sustain that you need rain.

but I'm a big believer in cradle to grave social security to replace all means tested benefits

and speaking of President Hoover, if you want to see how money and water flow, check out Hoover Dam.

 

[piezoe]

that's exactly my point, as a matter of fact he was the one who got me thinking about it many years ago. It's like dumping water on the ground. Somebody has to collect all that water and pump it back up to the rich so they can dump it on the poor again. But to sustain that you need rain.

but I'm a big believer in cradle to grave social security to replace all means tested benefits

and speaking of President Hoover, if you want to see how money and water flow, check out Hoover Dam.

You are someone that thinks, and that's really all we have a right to expect of anyone, because everything else follows.

 

[Zestilio]

Looks good. Humans are the only life form on this plant that needs to pay to have the right to live. Basic income looks like the best step so far that can give everyone equally, to have basic needs covered.

 

[ETcallhome]

Looks good. Humans are the only life form on this plant that needs to pay to have the right to live. Basic income looks like the best step so far that can give everyone equally, to have basic needs covered.

especially when basic needs are so simple and cheap in todays world. Once everyone is clothed and fed and sheltered from the elements, we can resume trying to win everybodys money from them, and maybe growing the pie a little bit in the process.

 

[kovalrock]

I am 100% for a such system. It may be the solution to unfair welfare. In some countries like France many people with low education hesitate between working or living on welfare. Others who work hard have sometimes the feeling that they pay for the ones who don't.

 

[Maverick74]

Guys, we already have this in the US times 100. I do agree to simplify this whole mess we just eliminate ALL benefits and give people an annual check. The dems in this country would NEVER support this because the idea of partialing out the benefits is what begets votes. Black people get this.....single moms get that....students this....immigrants that....etc. It's how you build voting blocks. The reason the "political right" supports this in theory is that it DESTROYS the democratic base. It renders their vote useless because you can't pander to them anymore.

But that aside, when you add up all the welfare benefits in this country, they come out to a lot more then $800 a month. Medicaid, food stamps, section 8 housing, reduced utility bills and then social security income. It's WAAAY more then this. Many economists fear that by giving people a lump sum and "hoping" they use it for food and living expenses, you run the risk of them not using it for that and still needing more. The reason we break it down in this country into these separate categories is precisely so people get what they NEED.

Now that is for the very poor. Now let's move to the idea of giving ALL people 800 bucks a month. Again, we do this in spades already we just use different distribution mechanisms. For example, the mortgage interest credit on your house is one of the biggest BS giveaways to the middle class. The earned income tax credit we give Americans for simply re-producing is another one. That's REAL money in the mail, not a tax deduction.

I highly doubt the left in this country would EVER support this idea unless they are suggesting we give this check out in "addition" to all the other free money handouts we give. I do agree in theory simplifying the process by just saying, here you go, do what you want with it, when the food runs out, don't ask us for more, is much more fair and efficient then breaking welfare down into all these categories where voting blocs are available for the highest bidder.