Finding programmers for Grey or Black Boxes

Quote from nononsense:

Very good question. There are also plenty of hungry snoopers in the US willing to pick some crumbs out of your money making boxie, grey or black.
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OK, fair enough. I agree. If a person is worried that the home-grown programmer will run off with their secrets and that our current legal system won't protect them, then here is the alternative.

Hire two programmers.

Programmer #1 created a dynamic linked library (DLL) of functions that the system will use. Some of the trade secrets will be included here. It is compiled and given to programmer #2.

Programmer #2 has the other half of the system development. He is exposed to many, but not all, of the trade secrets, similar to #1. He cannot view the source code of the DLL, so he can't put the whole puzzle together, but can access the funcationality of the DLL to complete the project.

The above is for the very paranoid only.
 
Quote from logikos:

There plenty of qualified folks here in the US that can program your system..... I'm currently swamped but can squeeze you in.

.... It's hard enough to prosecute in the American justice system instances in copyright infringement for software, how do they expect to do it on an international scale?
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Actually in my new software business we are swamped and cant take new clients ... Glad you have the time to help this person out.

The issue is not that there is a lack of qualified people in the US: The issue is that you can get people every bit as qualified overseas for 1/4 to 1/5 the price.

I do agree with you that I would never put trade secrets in the hands of foreign nationals simply because they can not be effectively prosecuted.

For important work we never let it out of our company and we break assignments across people or teams to ensure that the entire engineering design is only known to a few people.
 
Quote from logikos:

OK, fair enough. I agree. If a person is worried that the home-grown programmer will run off with their secrets and that our current legal system won't protect them, then here is the alternative.

Hire two programmers.

Programmer #1 created a dynamic linked library (DLL) of functions that the system will use. Some of the trade secrets will be included here. It is compiled and given to programmer #2.

Programmer #2 has the other half of the system development. He is exposed to many, but not all, of the trade secrets, similar to #1. He cannot view the source code of the DLL, so he can't put the whole puzzle together, but can access the funcationality of the DLL to complete the project.

The above is for the very paranoid only.
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You think so?
If your boxie really makes money - few ever will - I would never give such dll to programmer #2, even if he happens to be a very dumb one. Only requires a bit of virtuosity to pick out of your dll whatever you need. Beautiful tools are out there to help the nimble.
Conclusion, if you have a good little boxie, make sure nobody can put his nose in it. Other tools exist to make this a bit more difficult.
Didn't good ole Loeb not use to say:"Something that's known is worth nothing [in the markets]?"

:cool:

PS: a variant of this point has been often debated at ET as related to putting a boxie at a 'friendly hosting' broker
 
Quote from logikos:


Hire two programmers.

Programmer #1 created a dynamic linked library (DLL) of functions that the system will use. Some of the trade secrets will be included here. It is compiled and given to programmer #2.
More...

I haven't been involved for years but it seems to me you can load/run the DLL in memory, capture the memory, and then reverse engineer using specialized programs. Years ago you could do this with the CP/M and DOS debuggers. I can't believe the state-of-the-art has not kept up.

You can only provide so much protection. Whoever creates the final product must be trustworthy and trusted.

Jack
 
Quote from JackR:

I haven't been involved for years but it seems to me you can load/run the DLL in memory, capture the memory, and then reverse engineer using specialized programs. Years ago you could do this with the CP/M and DOS debuggers. I can't believe the state-of-the-art has not kept up.

You can only provide so much protection. Whoever creates the final product must be trustworthy and trusted.

Jack
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More than right Jack,

Looking at cryptography know-how, utmost care is taken in design NEVER to leave anything in memory for a microsecond too long. People also worry a lot about anything that could possibly have transited in the swap disk area. A lot of litterature exists on these technologies. Protection by trusting secrets packaged in a dll is darn right ignorant.
 
Quote from JackR:

I haven't been involved for years but it seems to me you can load/run the DLL in memory, capture the memory, and then reverse engineer using specialized programs. Years ago you could do this with the CP/M and DOS debuggers. I can't believe the state-of-the-art has not kept up.

You can only provide so much protection. Whoever creates the final product must be trustworthy and trusted.

Jack
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Exactly. Yes you can reverse engineer dll's.
There is still a way to stop this on windows by hooking the loader but its complicated.

Confining the trade secret parts of the design to a minimal number of trustworthy people is the best you can do .....
 
Quote from Gonz:

Contact this programmer who has both the programming skill and trading knowledge...
http://www.evol.gomain.org/
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..Or a better course of action would be to develop some contacts through your local business associations.

Rule number 1: Never take blind referrals - especially from posts on a public message board.
 
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