Financial Transaction Tax: Here Comes a Really Bad Idea

[gaussian]

As for “evidence”...start reading Politico and The Hill closely. Hardly a day goes by without some dingbat on the Ways and Means Committee invoking FTT in the laundry list of revenue-enhancing priorities.

You can't even be arsed to post a few links to support you claims.

"Start reading X and Y". I've been hearing this from both sides basically since 2016. If you can't be bothered to link real (not fake news) sources to your claims this topic is dead and no one else should engage.

 

[tortoise]

You can't even be arsed to post a few links to support you claims.

"Start reading X and Y". I've been hearing this from both sides basically since 2016. If you can't be bothered to link real (not fake news) sources to your claims this topic is dead and no one else should engage.

Ok, here’s a link from yesteday with yet another Ways and Means Committee member invoking FTT. But what does that prove? Nothing. It’s not any one link but the drip-drip-drip I’m reacting to. NYTimes will not serve this subject up to you in a nice package until it’s basically conventional wisdom.

In any event, I’ll post this latest—and, by itself, insignificant—link anyway.

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/...-debate-with-talk-of-70-percent-marginal-rate

 

[tortoise]

Well, let's see - it would still have enough liquidity to facilitate transfer for capital. By the way, based on some of the metrics (e.g. depth of the book etc) market is actually less liquid now than it was 10 years ago when transaction costs were higher.


Proposed tax is 10 basis points (at least that's what I saw on Google), tens of basis points bid/ask spread was perfectly normal back then.


I am not by any means advocating the idea, but I can say (since I do trade in countries that have FTT) that there are plenty of way to get around it and it will be a marginal nuisance at worst.


Well, you knowledge is not best then

• HK has a 10bps "stamp duty" (with the standard derivatives and MM exemptions)
• Korea has 15bps (sell only)
• Taiwan has 30bps (sell only)
• Singapore have one too but it's weird and does not really apply.

PS. Taiwan actually has an FTT intraday reduction that recently took effect - can't remember the exact details

Yes, I should have said “Asia has nothing like what’s been proposed here.” In other words, no derivatives exemption, tax applied to both sell and buy side, based on notional contract values etc.

If these folks have their way, there won’t be plenty of ways around it.

https://www.epi.org/publication/a-f...elp-ensure-wall-street-works-for-main-street/

 

[sle]

Yes, I should have said “Asia has nothing like what’s been proposed here.” In other words, no derivatives exemption, tax applied to both sell and buy side, based on notional contract values etc.

I am not too worried, especially considering how flexible derivative payoffs could be and how tricky it is to enforce these types of things (e.g. someone can list contingent premium options that would have zero premium at the trade time, swaps on return levels etc). In the worst case, derivative volumes will move off-shore and local stock volumes will decrease (it has happened in Sweden and is in progress in India, for example). My expectation, however, is that the potential proposal will be conservative and the final result will have plenty of loopholes.

Personally, I'd be more worried that the policies of the current management would f*ck up the market vs what democrats might or might not do in 4 years.

PS. This proposal has some LOLs, like that they are proposing to tax swaps by notional, especially considering that most of the swap volume is between offshore entities

 

[Visaria]

The London Stock Exchange has a 50bps stamp duty on purchases.

Donald Trump is the betting exchanges favourite to win the 2020 US election at this time. Still have almost 2 years left...so obviously odds can change.

 

[sle]

Donald Trump is the betting exchanges favourite to win the 2020 US election at this time. Still have almost 2 years left...so obviously odds can change.

Well, at least he's guaranteed to be candidate, so that means his win has a good prior. Add to it an incumbency cushion and it's hard to bet against him at this stage

 

[tortoise]

The London Stock Exchange has a 50bps stamp duty on purchases.

Does it apply to derivatives?

Ok, perhaps I'm overreacting. Traders here seem to think the FTT won't be such a bad thing. Bring it on, then.

 

[Visaria]

Ok, perhaps I'm overreacting. Traders here seem to think the FTT won't be such a bad thing. Bring it on, then.

No, u r right, it is a bad thing. Why would we want increased costs for trading?

Does it apply to derivatives?

No. But note there is VAT (sales tax?) of 20% on the brokers commission on any securities transactions.

 

[tortoise]

Well, at least he's guaranteed to be candidate, so that means his win has a good prior. Add to it an incumbency cushion and it's hard to bet against him at this stage

I'd bet against him. That would be the easiest bet I've ever placed. Between the shutdown, which he's horribly misplayed, Mueller's impending auto-de-fe, and NY State attorney general investigations, it's not a question of how, but when he will be taken out.

The establishment is not to be messed with lightly. And Trump messed with it lightly. For whatever reason, he passed on his shot to clean the Augean stables when the GOP held the House. Now he's screwed.

 

[tortoise]

No. But note there is VAT (sales tax?) of 20% on the brokers commission on any securities transactions.

Ok so that's just an increased commission. Very different than a tax on the notional value of contracts.