FINALLY passed TopstepTrader's Combine!

[Zzzz1]

You misinterpreted my point. What I meant with "share fruits of one's labor" was the money generated. No successful trader wants to only get a split but earn and keep their pnl.

Regarding your understanding, I would claim that keeping ideas and successful approaches to market proprietary is absolutely a desire of most successful traders. Sometimes it's for fear of copycats who might degrade the continuity of a successful approach (whether warranted or just felt) and often it is simply that thought that success in this business must be hard earned not freely shared.

Why? So if the fruits of that profitable trader get "leaked", and everyone in the world sees it, will the entire world then start using that method, and so that would then nullify the profitable system?

If that is what you believe really happens, then no profitable system in the world can ever be taught, because everyone learning it would negate it's effectiveness. Nobody would ever make any money. Yet people do, over and over in these markets.

And how does a person who "works hard AND shows potential can nowadays easily raise 200K to 500K", if by showing their potential, their system is "compromised" and it then fails based upon your supposition? How would they raise 200K to 500K then?

This is circular logic that doesn't make sense. Like non-sequitur stuff, man.

 

[Overnight]

You misinterpreted my point. What I meant with "share fruits of one's labor" was the money generated. No successful trader wants to only get a split but earn and keep their pnl..

Ahh. I suppose the idea behind a prop firm, ideally, is to trade with other people's money until the prop trader builds up his/her bank account big enough to strike out on their own. Otherwise, if they stay with the prop firm forever, they are essentially working for the firm in the strictest sense, like a broker with a trading license employed by a trading firm/brokerage

 

[Zzzz1]

No circular logic here.

Trade a small funded account live for 2 or 3 years. Generate stable returns at low drawdown. Sharpe ratio >1.5 and I absolutely guarantee you that every hedge fund and ibank wants to talk to you. I oversimplify but essentially it's not hard. But 2 to 3 years is wayyyyyyy toooooo looooooong for the lazy fucks today. Impossible, after all most cannot even hold a decent conversation face to face without looking at their smart phone.

Why? So if the fruits of that profitable trader get "leaked", and everyone in the world sees it, will the entire world then start using that method, and so that would then nullify the profitable system?

If that is what you believe really happens, then no profitable system in the world can ever be taught, because everyone learning it would negate it's effectiveness. Nobody would ever make any money. Yet people do, over and over in these markets.

And how does a person who "works hard AND shows potential can nowadays easily raise 200K to 500K", if by showing their potential, their system is "compromised" and it then fails based upon your supposition? How would they raise 200K to 500K then?

This is circular logic that doesn't make sense. Like non-sequitur stuff, man.

 

[Zzzz1]

I never saw the logic in prop firms for a smart trader. As said if you are onto something promising then trade a small self funded account live and build a track record. If you want to employ a proven strategy with plenty funding then join a hedge fund. I don't see where prop firms or small seeders like in this thread fit in for a smart trader

Ahh. I suppose the idea behind a prop firm, ideally, is to trade with other people's money until the prop trader builds up his/her bank account big enough to strike out on their own. Otherwise, if they stay with the prop firm forever, they are essentially working for the firm in the strictest sense, like a broker with a trading license employed by a trading firm/brokerage

 

[Overnight]

...Impossible, after all most cannot even hold a decent conversation face to face without looking at their smart phone.

LOL, not to judge in any way, but that sounds like the attitude of an older folk, like a baby boomer or Gen-Xer, who finds much disdain in how nobody seems able to function in life these days without their smartphone. I hear ya'.

As for showing live account profit over two to three years with small drawdown...Do you really feel that "every hedgefund/bank would be knocking down their door?" (Paraphrasing, sorry) Do you have proof this actually happens?

 

[Zzzz1]

I am under 40 if you so care to know. I would not say "nobody seems to function these day" but yes, I have never seen any generation that is so lazy, so easily distracted, so impassioned, and so impatient than many in their teens and 20s today. Of course each generation has its champions and share of hard working individuals but the larger share on the negative side stand out.

Proof? So there you go, do you belong to the above group? Why do you need proof? Go out, talk to your friends who work at funds and ask them. Build a track record and try it out for yourself. If you don't have a track record that is worthy of showing around then you should start building one today or you simply are in the wrong industry, man. People who need to be spoon fed from my experience don't have a long life expectancy in this job.

And why are we even arguing about this? Isn't it perfectly normal and expected that someone who wants to step up and get something greater shows and proves that they have so far mastered the smaller steps and have the required basic skills? If you cannot trade a small account you cannot trade a big account for sure.

LOL, not to judge in any way, but that sounds like the attitude of an older folk, like a baby boomer or Gen-Xer, who finds much disdain in how nobody seems able to function in life these days without their smartphone. I hear ya'.

As for showing live account profit over two to three years with small drawdown...Do you really feel that "every hedgefund/bank would be knocking down their door?" (Paraphrasing, sorry) Do you have proof this actually happens?

 

[Overnight]

...And why are we even arguing about this? .

We weren't arguing. I do not have "friends who work at funds". How many do? Not sure. Seems you are saying that a good track-record in live is like a good resume'. I tend to wonder if that is true. That is what I was asking.

 

[Zzzz1]

Absolutely. Let me then ask you another question. Since when has a positive track record in life not been as good as a CV or even better? Seriously, every head of trading looks first at what a potential hire has produced (=the pnl generated and risk metrics) before even looking at the guys face or his CV. Sure if you have nothing to show for then your school, education, and CV BS will be relevant but if you have shown you have traded and managed money well then I as managing director would always rather hire a high school dropout with trading acumen and a track record to back it up over some ivy league wannabe without such track record. (if the ivy League applicant had a positive trading record then I would pick him/her ) do you get the drift? Directly applicable skills are ALWAYS more relevant and valuable than other stuff.

We weren't arguing. I do not have "friends who work at funds". How many do? Not sure. Seems you are saying that a good track-record in live is like a good resume'. I tend to wonder if that is true. That is what I was asking.

 

[tlatoani]

Actually we look at FACTS.
I don't want to hear about how many passed sim or how many passed live trader prep.
After 6.5 years of milking dreamers not one trader has shown anything significant $ wise from this gig.
Where are the traders making 100k?
Hell where are the ones even making 30k?
It's okay to run a business but I still don't like the idea that the target audience continues to get fleeced while the shepard collects the coins.

Top Step is selling a dream to dreamers-- THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS!! At the very least TStep teaches discipline and a methodology. Will these souls every make it as real traders, mostly no but neither will the sad souls who dump all their inheritance or business sale/home sale proceeds into the market with a dream.

When its all added up, Tstep is far less harmful than a DIY moronn with a pocket full of cash.

 

[Zzzz1]

It is wrong when the intent is obfuscated. The intent here seems to be to let dreamers dream for a few hundred dollars to join something so such individuals can pride themselves of being in a "Trading program". Then the company should be forthright and point that out clearly. But then of course the whole sharade would break down and nobody would join anymore. Hoaxes and cons only work as long as the target audience believes its real and not a con.

By the way people who waste their or others' money in a pursuit without the necessarily skill set to manage such money well are not sad souls. They are simply STUPID and deserve to be parted from their money. Hey, the grease machine has to keep working, do you know how few in this industry truly produce? All the rest are parasites, all those snake oil sales men, analysts, data sales people, FCM s, they are all leeching. They produce nothing, no pnl, no profit. They only skim a piece off everyone. So who do you think has to feed all those parasites? Yes the losers in the game. This industry needs a steady incoming stream of losers, dreamers, the lazy, in order to survive. Call be cynical, with time you will realize that what i am saying is 100% true. Very very few people actually make money in this industry.

Top Step is selling a dream to dreamers-- THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS!! At the very least TStep teaches discipline and a methodology. Will these souls every make it as real traders, mostly no but neither will the sad souls who dump all their inheritance or business sale/home sale proceeds into the market with a dream.

When its all added up, Tstep is far less harmful than a DIY moronn with a pocket full of cash.