Finally !!! ASK QUESTIONS, DEMAND ANSWERS.
- Thread starter total180
- Start date
For some reason I've always been a disaster buff. This "hobby" has led me to read the NTSB report for EVERY major U.S. passenger crash that's occurred over the past forty years. The lack of discernable wreckage on 9/11 is not uncommon in high velocity crashes. However high velocity crashes themselves aren't particularly common. Obviously a plane that crashes from several hundred feet while landing in wind sheer is going to be relatively intact. An airliner in final approach is moving at just over 100mph. In fact most fatalities in common crashes of that type are caused by fire not by impact and often a low velocity crash will yield some survivors. An airliner hitting the ground at 550mph like Flight 93 is a different story.
I suggest you all Google the 1996 ValueLine crash outside Miami. An onboard fire caused the plane to lose hydraulics as it plunged from a height of 6000 feet. When the plane hit the Everglades it too was moving at about 500-600 mph. It was OBLITERATED. Likewise the 1994 crash of American Eagle flight 4184 in Indiana. No bodies were recovered. The victims families had to suffer without the recovery of any remains.
Weirdly airplanes that explode in midair often fare quite well. Flight 800, Air India in 1985, and Lockerbie are all examples of planes that met sudden inflight trauma yet sort of "floated" down. In fact there's evidence that all three of those crashes may have had a survivor or two. Autopsies showed drowning as the COD of a few passengers on Air India and a resident of Lockerbie swears that a flight attendant he stumbled upon was alive for a few minutes. Ironically HAD the government shot down 93 it probably would have hit the ground at a lower speed and yielded more visible wreckage.
I suggest you all Google the 1996 ValueLine crash outside Miami. An onboard fire caused the plane to lose hydraulics as it plunged from a height of 6000 feet. When the plane hit the Everglades it too was moving at about 500-600 mph. It was OBLITERATED. Likewise the 1994 crash of American Eagle flight 4184 in Indiana. No bodies were recovered. The victims families had to suffer without the recovery of any remains.
Weirdly airplanes that explode in midair often fare quite well. Flight 800, Air India in 1985, and Lockerbie are all examples of planes that met sudden inflight trauma yet sort of "floated" down. In fact there's evidence that all three of those crashes may have had a survivor or two. Autopsies showed drowning as the COD of a few passengers on Air India and a resident of Lockerbie swears that a flight attendant he stumbled upon was alive for a few minutes. Ironically HAD the government shot down 93 it probably would have hit the ground at a lower speed and yielded more visible wreckage.
You're making a good point Whister but the information collected by the 911 skeptics point to a gradual evolution of events and alliances that started a long time ago. The PNAC movement had already convinced Clinton on the necessity to attack Iraq and Afghanistan but at a time when the public didn't support such plans. (The bombings of US Embassies, the Khobar Towers, the USS Cole and WTC in 1993 were not enough.)
Yep. In the words of Newton: "F=ma"; force = mass times acceleration. A commercial airliner that hits the ground head on at 550 miles per hour results in all of that velocity being instantaneously transferred into acceleration. The max weight of a 757 on takeoff is about 240,000 lbs., So, allowing for some jet fuel burn, if the plane hit the ground and weight only 220,000 lbs., then the resulting explosive force released on impact is about 60,000 tons, or 6 kt., which is about three times larger than the smallest nuclear device in the U.S. military arsenal, i.e., a 2kt tactical anti-tank round, originally designed to stop a large scale tank assault into Western Europe by the USSR.
The fact that there was nothing left of three of the 9/11 flights is simply the result of their head on collisions with a really big object -- the Earth in one case, the WTC towers in the other two.
As for the 4th 9/11 aircraft, well, the Pentagon Building obviously has quite a bit more reinforcement than anyone would have expected. So despite its mundane appearance, it too is a "really big object," and it stopped the attacking aircraft cold, resulting in the plane's almost complete and instantaneous annihilation.
Pabst, I'd have to agree with you. My father ran a (nameless) international airport for a number of years, when I was a kid I got to hang out at a ton of airshows at the VIP booth. Needless to say this led to a huge interest in aviation - but I still think you need to get out more if you're read every NTSB report, lol!. The layman has very little idea of the the incredible energy involved in a typical airline crash... at many incidents you're lucky to find something more than foot or two square.
kjkent, you're doing a good job of sounding intelligent but (forgive me) you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
1. Mass multiplied by velocity is momentum, not force. You stated force is mass multiplied by acceleration, then blew the calcs.
2. Then somehow this force reverts units back into weight, and then this weight is somehow now a measure of energy! (kt is measuring TNT energy equivalents, not any real unit)
In short, you're on the right track, but your math sucks.
kjkent, you're doing a good job of sounding intelligent but (forgive me) you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
1. Mass multiplied by velocity is momentum, not force. You stated force is mass multiplied by acceleration, then blew the calcs.
2. Then somehow this force reverts units back into weight, and then this weight is somehow now a measure of energy! (kt is measuring TNT energy equivalents, not any real unit)
In short, you're on the right track, but your math sucks.