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Fibonacci
- Thread starter Perseus
- Start date
The so called 'Golden Ratio/Rectangle/Measure/etc' isn't a number series, neither is the Fibonacci Price Levels tool a number series calculator.
wallace, I didn't say that, i said it was a limiting value of the ratio of two numbers in the series.
The fibo tool calculates and displays ratios based on the measurement of a Wave (Elliott theory) distance between 2 points. The fibo tool is used to project future Price target levels â Corrections/Retracements, new Highs/Lows.
see: http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.golden.ratio.html
the link you gave has nothing to do with the markets, it is the usual stuff that has been debunked. Also you should know who these people are, they are just math students volunteering to answer K-12 questions. It certainly doesn't explain your 'fibo tool'.
I also use the recursion relationship of the so called Fibonacci and Lucas number series to project Time targets â Bar Counts â the number series.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...&threadid=48378
well when i get a little more time I'll try and plow through your posts. I didn't see anything particularly that stood out as special on first glance.
wallace, I didn't say that, i said it was a limiting value of the ratio of two numbers in the series.
The fibo tool calculates and displays ratios based on the measurement of a Wave (Elliott theory) distance between 2 points. The fibo tool is used to project future Price target levels â Corrections/Retracements, new Highs/Lows.
see: http://mathforum.org/dr.math/faq/faq.golden.ratio.html
the link you gave has nothing to do with the markets, it is the usual stuff that has been debunked. Also you should know who these people are, they are just math students volunteering to answer K-12 questions. It certainly doesn't explain your 'fibo tool'.
I also use the recursion relationship of the so called Fibonacci and Lucas number series to project Time targets â Bar Counts â the number series.
http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showt...&threadid=48378
well when i get a little more time I'll try and plow through your posts. I didn't see anything particularly that stood out as special on first glance.
ok then for now I am going to bring in my own expert to hurl questions at:
http://www.woodingtrading.com/fibonacciretracement.html
Now here's where it gets good.
Take the current number and divide by the next number.
21/34 = 0.6176 or 34/55 = 0.6182 or 144/233 = 0.6180
0.618 is 62%, this is one of the key Fibonacci retracement levels.
You can get the 38% retracement level by taking the previous number and dividing by the next number.
21/55 = 0.382 or 34/89 = 0.382 etc.
Another way is simply to multiply 0.618 by itself.
0.618 * 0.618 = 0.382
One other number to be aware of is the square root of 0.618.
square root of 0.618 is 0.786 (or 79%).
And finally, the 50% level is a price level to be reckoned with, even if it doesn't have it's roots in the Fibonacci series.
well the first thing that catches my eye is that 50% is thrown in even though it has nothing to do with Fibonacci, nothing at all, it's just a good neat number to be reckoned with. Ok, even if you buy that then why is it to be reckoned with?
also the square and square root of the golden ratio is to be 'reckoned with'- why?
this site takes the same position as most of you....
Now, I don't claim to know why these numbers work in the stock market. And it's not important to me. What is important is that they do work.
and then he says....
Alright, enough theory, let's move on.
what a goddam hoot, in the very sentence before he admits he hasn't got a clue, but hey lets just move on....on to the punch line where, for a small fee of course, you too can benefit from Fibonacci magic,
http://www.fibonaccisecrets.com/?PHPSESSID=ef34f4753986390d3f137b247b02a3bb
now he does point out that When fibonacci retracement levels from different time frames overlap, the odds of a stock finding support or resistance at that price level is increased.
on his very chart though a 68% lines up nearly with a 38% and it is violated as both a resistance and/or support point.
http://www.woodingtrading.com/fibonacciretracement.html
Now here's where it gets good.
Take the current number and divide by the next number.
21/34 = 0.6176 or 34/55 = 0.6182 or 144/233 = 0.6180
0.618 is 62%, this is one of the key Fibonacci retracement levels.
You can get the 38% retracement level by taking the previous number and dividing by the next number.
21/55 = 0.382 or 34/89 = 0.382 etc.
Another way is simply to multiply 0.618 by itself.
0.618 * 0.618 = 0.382
One other number to be aware of is the square root of 0.618.
square root of 0.618 is 0.786 (or 79%).
And finally, the 50% level is a price level to be reckoned with, even if it doesn't have it's roots in the Fibonacci series.
well the first thing that catches my eye is that 50% is thrown in even though it has nothing to do with Fibonacci, nothing at all, it's just a good neat number to be reckoned with. Ok, even if you buy that then why is it to be reckoned with?
also the square and square root of the golden ratio is to be 'reckoned with'- why?
this site takes the same position as most of you....
Now, I don't claim to know why these numbers work in the stock market. And it's not important to me. What is important is that they do work.
and then he says....
Alright, enough theory, let's move on.
what a goddam hoot, in the very sentence before he admits he hasn't got a clue, but hey lets just move on....on to the punch line where, for a small fee of course, you too can benefit from Fibonacci magic,
http://www.fibonaccisecrets.com/?PHPSESSID=ef34f4753986390d3f137b247b02a3bb
now he does point out that When fibonacci retracement levels from different time frames overlap, the odds of a stock finding support or resistance at that price level is increased.
on his very chart though a 68% lines up nearly with a 38% and it is violated as both a resistance and/or support point.
toc,
you mean this guy? http://www.astrologyforthesoul.com/finastr/oct2003.html
the financial astrologer?
you mean this guy? http://www.astrologyforthesoul.com/finastr/oct2003.html
the financial astrologer?
No Perseus, what you said was:
"wallace, you have it backwards- the ratio derives from the series (not vice versa) in the limit of large numbers. notice how off the 'golden ratio' is for the numbers less than 50. Notice too that many others series of numbers converge to the same ratio, like the Lucas series, it is simply a property of the recursion relation - nothing special there."
What I've pointed out and you've ignored it the use of the ratio and use of a number series are 2 different tools that have 'Fibonacci'/pi in common.
The ratio existed before the numbers.
The "justification" for the use of any tool applied to trading is that it works for the user, irrespective that others don't or are unable apply and use the tool.
"... why in the markets?" Why not.
"wallace, you have it backwards- the ratio derives from the series (not vice versa) in the limit of large numbers. notice how off the 'golden ratio' is for the numbers less than 50. Notice too that many others series of numbers converge to the same ratio, like the Lucas series, it is simply a property of the recursion relation - nothing special there."
What I've pointed out and you've ignored it the use of the ratio and use of a number series are 2 different tools that have 'Fibonacci'/pi in common.
The ratio existed before the numbers.
The "justification" for the use of any tool applied to trading is that it works for the user, irrespective that others don't or are unable apply and use the tool.
"... why in the markets?" Why not.
Perseus,
This may or may not clear it up a bit. As a "Wyckoffian" one of the main things we look at is the 50% retracement level as a support/resistance point. As w/all s/r we regard this as an area, not really defined by the artificial thin lines we draw on our charts, and of course certain s/r points are more important than others. So in an reaction in an uptrend we pay particular attention to the nature of pv behavior as price approaches the 50% level, just as we would at any s/r level. Instead of focusing so specifically on the 38%-50%-62% levels as is the standard Fib practice, we consider retracement levels to be shallow or normal or deep, which is based on the theory of how supply and demand work in an auction market, rather than Fibs. This was Wyckoff's practice early in the last century, so technical Fib levels really had nothing to do w/it.
H
This may or may not clear it up a bit. As a "Wyckoffian" one of the main things we look at is the 50% retracement level as a support/resistance point. As w/all s/r we regard this as an area, not really defined by the artificial thin lines we draw on our charts, and of course certain s/r points are more important than others. So in an reaction in an uptrend we pay particular attention to the nature of pv behavior as price approaches the 50% level, just as we would at any s/r level. Instead of focusing so specifically on the 38%-50%-62% levels as is the standard Fib practice, we consider retracement levels to be shallow or normal or deep, which is based on the theory of how supply and demand work in an auction market, rather than Fibs. This was Wyckoff's practice early in the last century, so technical Fib levels really had nothing to do w/it.
H
Quote from hcour:
Perseus,
This may or may not clear it up a bit. As a "Wyckoffian" one of the main things we look at is the 50% retracement level as a support/resistance point. As w/all s/r we regard this as an area, not really defined by the artificial thin lines we draw on our charts, and of course certain s/r points are more important than others. So in an reaction in an uptrend we pay particular attention to the nature of pv behavior as price approaches the 50% level, just as we would at any s/r level. Instead of focusing so specifically on the 38%-50%-62% levels as is the standard Fib practice, we consider retracement levels to be shallow or normal or deep, which is based on the theory of how supply and demand work in an auction market, rather than Fibs. This was Wyckoff's practice early in the last century, so technical Fib levels really had nothing to do w/it.
H
Fib numbers work well for me because I think they look good on a chart. Any of these examples will show you what I mean. All the charts look good http://www.trade-ideas.com/Help.html#FU38