Fibonacci works due to self fufilling prophecy or becuz 618 is embeded in humans?

[Sprout]

"Fibonacci's" is not a method -- it is one tiny piece of Mandelbrot -- who, had a dollar for every yutz who tried to predict shit ex post facto, would be a very rich man.

K, so it's the Mandelbrot method? I'm a beginner to Fib's as applied to the markets and trading.

Fractals though, are another matter. They are very applicable to the markets and trading.

Perhaps someone with more advanced knowledge of various fibonacci's tools and their application could talk through a typical "take the trade!" moment.

I don't understand why one tool would be more applicable in different contexts nor how to properly use any of the tools.

Maybe
@peter2h
@MACD
would be kind enough to post a chart with a typical tool and what they are thinking as they put on a trade.

 

[speedo]

I don't use it but serious Fib folks like Bob Miner and Carolyn Borodin use price AND time clusters computed from various points. Miner's book, Dynamic Trading is a nice study of the methodology....a tad anal for my purposes.

 

[Buy1Sell2]

self fufilling prophecy or the world is embedded with the golden ratio, for example human growth, rabbit breeding etc?

It doesn't work

 

[peter2h]

Speaking of coin tosses, I know we all remember famous examples of (competitive) trading portfolios that were comprised via the tossing of darts at pages of the Wall Street Journal. I wonder, though, if they were all automatically long. What if there was an additional chance parameter, of incorporating a coin toss to decide whether to short or to long the position? Anyone aware of such a thing?

Which then begs additionally..... the use of a 6-sided (cubic) die -- if it shows
1 -- you enter the underlying long
2 -- you short
3 -- you buy a call
4 -- you buy a put
5 -- you sell a call
6 -- you buy a put.

Hell! Why stop there!! Get two different die, and roll 'em both, and use combination positions! Woot!
I see from your profile that you are an options trader, so I find it remarkable that you feel that you know enough about intra-day trading to make judgments about the validity of Fibonacci in day trading--so much so that you feel that you can call it "bullshit"-- without any experiential knowledge of it. I use these levels not "
I need to find some vict---- I mean, students, and let them go to town on this.....

Speaking of coin tosses, I know we all remember famous examples of (competitive) trading portfolios that were comprised via the tossing of darts at pages of the Wall Street Journal. I wonder, though, if they were all automatically long. What if there was an additional chance parameter, of incorporating a coin toss to decide whether to short or to long the position? Anyone aware of such a thing?

Which then begs additionally..... the use of a 6-sided (cubic) die -- if it shows
1 -- you enter the underlying long
2 -- you short
3 -- you buy a call
4 -- you buy a put
5 -- you sell a call
6 -- you buy a put.

Hell! Why stop there!! Get two different die, and roll 'em both, and use combination positions! Woot!

I need to find some vict---- I mean, students, and let them go to town on this.....

K, so it's the Mandelbrot method? I'm a beginner to Fib's as applied to the markets and trading.

Fractals though, are another matter. They are very applicable to the markets and trading.

Perhaps someone with more advanced knowledge of various fibonacci's tools and their application could talk through a typical "take the trade!" moment.

I don't understand why one tool would be more applicable in different contexts nor how to properly use any of the tools.

Maybe
@peter2h
@MACD
would be kind enough to post a chart with a typical tool and what they are thinking as they put on a trade.

Yes, Sprout, I will be happy to post a chart. You can notice how the 127.2%, was a support level at seven o'clock or so, (Pacific Time), then the 78%was resistance, then to the 100% for support, then 127.2% again, then the 161.8. When you have faith in this "method" you can put your orders in ahead of time and let the market come to you rather than chasing it--a much more comfortable way to work. This chart is from today's action in the ES.

 

[MACD]

Who posts to Elite Trader?
Perhaps:
(1) There are those who genuinely wish to gain insight or actually hope to learn to trade profitably.
(2) Some may post hoping to flatter their own ego by either engaging in semantics or by posting unsupported "It
Doesn't work" comments.
(3) There are perhaps posters who are floundering, and even wounded by loss through trading, and are here
looking for straws to grab onto.
(4) Those seeking the Holy Grail
(5) Those posters who just love to post as many times as possible like 13,000 posts and produce noise
in the process of posting everything and everywhere -- mostly of no value.
(6) Lastly, there are a few, very few, unfortunately, who are really making money trading live accounts, and hope that others may get real value from their posts.

So many well intentioned Real Traders, leave these message boards -- because they are chased away. Maybe, if we read more carefully -- we might be able to determine if the post has some worth.

 

[MACD]

Does anyone know how to post Live trades real-time here? Is there a chatroom setup that can be used. Live Stream to see Real Trades using fibs? Perhaps that would provide the most clarity and either prove the value of using Fibonacci or perhaps even show that the use is worthless. Suggestions, please?

 

[Sprout]

Yes, Sprout, I will be happy to post a chart. You can notice how the 127.2%, was a support level at seven o'clock or so, (Pacific Time), then the 78%was resistance, then to the 100% for support, then 127.2% again, then the 161.8. When you have faith in this "method" you can put your orders in ahead of time and let the market come to you rather than chasing it--a much more comfortable way to work. This chart is from today's action in the ES.

Is there a sequence of levels that price goes through? The second time 127.2% was reached it continued to go south. How would one discern the difference between the first reach of 127.2% and the 2nd reach of 127.2%?

Who posts to Elite Trader?
Perhaps:
(1) There are those who genuinely wish to gain insight or actually hope to learn to trade profitably.
(2) Some may post hoping to flatter their own ego by either engaging in semantics or by posting unsupported "It
Doesn't work" comments.
(3) There are perhaps posters who are floundering, and even wounded by loss through trading, and are here
looking for straws to grab onto.
(4) Those seeking the Holy Grail
(5) Those posters who just love to post as many times as possible like 13,000 posts and produce noise
in the process of posting everything and everywhere -- mostly of no value.
(6) Lastly, there are a few, very few, unfortunately, who are really making money trading live accounts, and hope that others may get real value from their posts.

So many well intentioned Real Traders, leave these message boards -- because they are chased away. Maybe, if we read more carefully -- we might be able to determine if the post has some worth.

The ignore feature is super useful and a great time-saver. I do recognize everyone has value to offer. Sometimes simply to offer contrast of that which we don't want. It doesn't change their truth nor mine. It does though lead to a way better feeling day.

I don't use it but serious Fib folks like Bob Miner and Carolyn Borodin use price AND time clusters computed from various points. Miner's book, Dynamic Trading is a nice study of the methodology....a tad anal for my purposes.

That is a beefy book. Some of the comments on Amazon don't favor Miner's view on Elliott waves.

Time clusters are an interesting concept. Any care to share their perspectives?

 

[Sprout]

Does anyone know how to post Live trades real-time here? Is there a chatroom setup that can be used. Live Stream to see Real Trades using fibs? Perhaps that would provide the most clarity and either prove the value of using Fibonacci or perhaps even show that the use is worthless. Suggestions, please?

Personally I like annotated walkthrough charts. A whole chart is a bit much, but a pre-flight checklist on the day (or trading timeframe) and where do the first couple of trades present themselves?

I've seen this done as snapshots on the day with commentary. Great format that allows for learning reference.

I'm currently charting on tradingview. Lot's of Elliott wave analysis happening over there if one explores the social aspect of the platform.

 

[MACD]

I do recognize everyone has value to offer. Sometimes simply to offer contrast of that which we don't want. It doesn't change their truth nor mine. It does though lead to a way better feeling day.

Not trying to be antagonistic or combative with the point that you make. In my opinion, the purpose of following threads on message boards is not to find "TRUTHS" that agree with your worldview (Gestalt) or some belief system based on feeling good for the day; or that one is searching for reinforcement of your need for feeling good.
Elliot wave is not the topic here and yes it is somewhat related to the Fibs but no need to use it with the fibs as it would provide only confusing signals and some redundancy (collinear signals). All traders that are consistently profitable have found the Less is More. So it is with the quest for Truth -- one needs to find the "Path" and stick to it -- Dilettantes do not succeed in trading and not in Life. "Their Truth no Mine", as you stated above are Subjective not really Scientific proof or Objective Truth. Trading Can Be.

Thanks for a careful reading. BTW the book I offered was not by Robert Miner, It was by Larry Pesavento who in some way taught Robert Miner his craft. Additionally, I offered to share screens and no good readers seeking Trading Truths have held me to the offer.

 

[MACD]

Thanks for the suggestions on another platform (Trading View). Again I am not seeking information on Elliot wave, which BTW, I have used and fully understand and have thrown out years ago as non-productive. This share stuff on forums like trading view is again the blind leading the blind. (Again please do not take these last posts as being antagonistic. Just trying to proceed with the reality of trading profitably.)