Federal Reserve: fact or conspiracy?

[Hello]

woah woah woah, wait a second, i would have supported the collapse of the economy under free market principles years ago, the problem is that we have balooned it into something which is unrecognisable, even by the people trying to fix it........ If we allow the current economy to collapse, we are totally fucked..... there is no way out besides destruction....... i would have loved to allow free market principles to work 30 years ago, if we allow it to happen tomorrow you know as well as i do we are looking at a systemic collapse.

People might say that is good as we would clean out all the garbage, as a highly profitable trader it would have zero effect on me, but we have long since passed the point of no return.

Quote from Maverick74:

You can't get a little bit pregnant.

To Quote Bush "I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system." One of the worst quotes of all time.

I think the problem we have here is point of view. I see a suffering economy as good, you see it as bad. A suffering economy is a symptom to a problem. It tells us we need to fix something. The same way that when your body gets sick, your body sends you signals that something is wrong. If we never had those symptoms, we would die. Because we would never know there was anything wrong with us.

The idea is not to give the economy pain killers so we don't have to feel the pain. The idea is to feel the pain so we don't make the same mistakes again in the future. You want to treat the symptoms. I want to treat the disease.

 

[dtan1e]

Quote from Hello:

I agree that todays fed is a disaster based on what greenspan and bernankie did, however could you imagine how high morgtage rates would currently be if the fed wasnt currently creating artificially low rates?

We would be well over 10% as the norm for mortgages...... What do you think that would do to the economy.....the Fed serves its purpose because it counteracts the natural economic response in the time of need, and naturally counteracts the economy in the time of need......

You sh not be so fixated on 10%. No one knows what the rate will be until tried out thats why there is interest rate trading, also why the banks rather put their funds to trading then retail lending. Its the cure that one sh seek not dogmatic theory or number in this instance

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Hello:

woah woah woah, wait a second, i would have supported the collapse of the economy under free market principles years ago, the problem is that we have balooned it into something which is unrecognisable, even by the people trying to fix it........ If we allow the current economy to collapse, we are totally fucked..... there is no way out besides destruction....... i would have loved to allow free market principles to work 30 years ago, if we allow it to happen tomorrow you know as well as i do we are looking at a systemic collapse.

People might say that is good as we would clean out all the garbage, as a highly profitable trader it would have zero effect on me, but we have long since passed the point of no return.

The economy is going to collapse either way. We are only delaying it. Why not get it over with. You know as well as I do that this is unsustainable. The only way out for us is war. Constant continual never ending war. There is no economic solution to what we have become. The idea that we can keep inflating this bubble to let the air out of slowly and gradually is preposterous.

Of course those wars will have to be funded with more debt. And round and round we go. The empire is over. Let the nostalgia go. Hopefully you took pictures to show your grand kids what it looked like. The mother of all mean reversion is about to begin.

 

[Daal]

Quote from Maverick74:

You can't get a little bit pregnant.

To Quote Bush "I've abandoned free-market principles to save the free-market system." One of the worst quotes of all time.

I think the problem we have here is point of view. I see a suffering economy as good, you see it as bad. A suffering economy is a symptom to a problem. It tells us we need to fix something. The same way that when your body gets sick, your body sends you signals that something is wrong. If we never had those symptoms, we would die. Because we would never know there was anything wrong with us.

The idea is not to give the economy pain killers so we don't have to feel the pain. The idea is to feel the pain so we don't make the same mistakes again in the future. You want to treat the symptoms. I want to treat the disease.

You should read up on Soros reflexitivy. Once things starts collapsing they just keep going, that is until the government stops the collapse. Bernanke has a 20+ sample study on the great depression showing that countries that abandoned the gold standard(a decision from the sovereign) had better economic performance then others. And the cost was what, some inflation, so what

 

[Hello]

Hope you havent interpreted anything i have said as offensive, i am enjoying debating someone who knows what they are talking about for a change.

I realise we will have to inevitably bite the bullet, it will be horrendous at some point, 10% unemployment will be admirable if this happens. realistically we are looking at 25-40%, and yes i fully agree the only way out is war, thats why i have zero faith in the future..... we are witnessing the beginning of world war three no matter how anyone spins it..... as a realist, i realise it is coming, i just dont want to see it, there is going to be trade wars in the coming months and years followed by full blown wars, i realise this, i was hoping we could hold out a little longer as this one will probably end in total destruction, i cant even imagine the BIOLOGICAL weapons, which exist...... let alone the nukes....

It is a sad state of affairs......

Quote from Maverick74:

The economy is going to collapse either way. We are only delaying it. Why not get it over with. You know as well as I do that this is unsustainable. The only way out for us is war. Constant continual never ending war. There is no economic solution to what we have become. The idea that we can keep inflating this bubble to let the air out of slowly and gradually is preposterous.

Of course those wars will have to be funded with more debt. And round and round we go. The empire is over. Let the nostalgia go. Hopefully you took pictures to show your grand kids what it looked like. The mother of all mean reversion is about to begin.

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Daal:

You should read up on Soros reflexitivy. Once things starts collapsing they just keep going, that is until the government stops the collapse. Bernanke has a 20+ sample study on the great depression showing that countries that abandoned the gold standard(a decision from the sovereign) had better economic performance then others. And the cost was what, some inflation, so what

I have read Soros's book on reflexivity. Once again, government cannot stop the collapse, they can only delay it. Let me ask you a question. Will sign up for the service when the government calls? Will you stand a post? Will you start shooting when the government tells you? Because the long term solution to this problem isn't economic. I just want to make sure all you Keynesians are ready to fight when called upon to defend your policy.

 

[Daal]

Quote from Maverick74:

I have read Soros's book on reflexivity. Once again, government cannot stop the collapse, they can only delay it. Let me ask you a question. Will sign up for the service when the government calls? Will you stand a post? Will you start shooting when the government tells you? Because the long term solution to this problem isn't economic. I just want to make sure all you Keynesians are ready to fight when called upon to defend your policy.

The idea that war is the 'only' solution is not logical. If that is the only valid solution, nothing prevents the government from creating a war against sea fish, with lots of money printing, military spending for bombs being thrown at the ocean and people being paid to fight with harpoons, no human life would be lost. Of course if that worked it would have worked because of the money printing inflating debts away and due increased spending not because anything particular to a war

 

[Maverick74]

Quote from Daal:

The idea that war is the 'only' solution is not logical. If that is the only valid solution, nothing prevents the government from creating a war against sea fish, with lots of money printing, military spending for bombs being thrown at the ocean and people being paid to fight with harpoons, no human life would be lost. Of course if that worked it would have worked because of the money printing inflating debts away and due increased spending not because anything particular to a war

OK, I think what I said went right over your head. That was a very odd response. Read what I said again and think about it a little and let it simmer for awhile. Here is a clue, Japan and Germany.

 

[Daal]

You said this
"You know as well as I do that this is unsustainable. The only way out for us is war. Constant continual never ending war."

Hence my response

 

[Hello]

Quote from Daal:

The idea that war is the 'only' solution is not logical. If that is the only valid solution, nothing prevents the government from creating a war against sea fish, with lots of money printing, military spending for bombs being thrown at the ocean and people being paid to fight with harpoons, no human life would be lost. Of course if that worked it would have worked because of the money printing inflating debts away and due increased spending not because anything particular to a war

It wont have anything to do with logic, war is inevitable, trade wars are already starting, look up the leading causes of both world war 1, and 2, the driving factor behind both was that everyone was broke, i like to think we may have evolved as a society since then, but i have very little faith in that concept thus as a person who doesnt believe in god..... all i can do is hope...